Pulling Directions on Fall
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Gypo Logger
Timber Baron
Hey Kanga, I think we almost got you ready to pop! If you listen real close creampuff, you'll hear holding wood cracking, but that's only if you have the balls to stay with the tree!Ekka said:What this whole argument is about is this statement above. Pay attention sight impared loggers, Gypo wrote "it's always best for all concerned to cut off all hingewood at just the right time.".
Now if you agree with the above, you are an idiot!
Even the Cahoon left hingewood on that earlier pic, what a stupid statement to make on a public forum. Idiot!
And then the only retaliation you have is mud slinging and BS; and like an earlier post you think there's safety in numbers? You think that because you have been taking high risks and inappropriate procedures for umpteen years it makes it right?
Well, the above is a typical always, all, all ... red herring. Think about it.
Hahaha
http://www.arboristsite.com/attachment_13527.php
Hahaha
Trinity Honoria
Senior Member
a_lopa said:
thank you for being a gentleman about this... i feel elated that you are only asking for a loan of the funds for the airfare... and i dare not ask how you will pay me back...
Gypo Logger
Timber Baron
I can see it all now, Kanga standing there with a 10 ft. stub wondering why it won't fall with 6" of holding wood.
Cut the hinge off you stupid diklik!!! That's what what the loggers do!
Hahaha
John
Cut the hinge off you stupid diklik!!! That's what what the loggers do!
Hahaha
John
Heard the one about the drunk at a party? They sent him into a bedroom, where his prize was a blow up doll. He came out, all bewildered--said he was really going at it, when he bit her on the neck, but she farted and flew out the window.
Ekka
Addicted to ArboristSite
Gypo Logger said:The best climbers are the ones who have mastered their chainsaws. A few that come to mind are RB tree, TreeCo, KFtree and I'm sure I left out at least a couple other renegade climbers.
John
Hey genius, watch this 18 second video of an RB job recently.
http://www.palmtreeservices.com.au/video/rbtree.mpg
Also, good to see you lurking around TH ... here's a closer look of the log in question, just like RB's, doesn't look like 6" of holding wood to me ... but then again, you are vision impaired ... or is it the neurons that interpret the vision.
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Gypo Logger
Timber Baron
Keep trying greenhorn. You must be very proud of yourself with that notch.
Good job Kanga! Lets see you make a cut with a chainsaw. That should be a real joke. How can you have 6" of holding wood on a 6" tree?
Hahaha
John
Good job Kanga! Lets see you make a cut with a chainsaw. That should be a real joke. How can you have 6" of holding wood on a 6" tree?
Hahaha
John
Gypo Logger said:
What's up with ya Johnny? Why make a fool of yourself?...Here's the whole story...and I'll post the videos soon....
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=5336&highlight=Falling+Big
Ekka
Addicted to ArboristSite
Rb, I had a good look thru that old thread, nice.
Couldn't get any of the vid links to play, most dead now.
Johnny AKA Gypo, shot himself in the foot that much he's getting around in a wheel chair.
Couldn't get any of the vid links to play, most dead now.
Johnny AKA Gypo, shot himself in the foot that much he's getting around in a wheel chair.
smokechase II
Addicted to ArboristSite
One way to get your holding wood perfect is to make your face, then start your back cut by boring in and coming forward toward the face and stopping short with just the holding wood you prescribe. Then go out the back.
A few advantages to this are 1) This is a great technique to avoid a barber chair on a heavy leaner, 2) The tree will go over slightly faster as it isn't being slowly released but quickly, (this can also be a disadvantage if you're main concern is breakage), and 3) You're finishing your cut moving away from the tree. One of them little safety things that could work out eventually.
Disadvantages are a) Doesn't lend itself to wedging, so if you're not working with the lean - disregard and b) You need bar length to get through the bigger wood.
Look at the last big tree photo by Dennis Cahoon and note how the logger there didn't get the holding wood even. So what, at some point you gotta get out of Dodge and make it home at night.
A few advantages to this are 1) This is a great technique to avoid a barber chair on a heavy leaner, 2) The tree will go over slightly faster as it isn't being slowly released but quickly, (this can also be a disadvantage if you're main concern is breakage), and 3) You're finishing your cut moving away from the tree. One of them little safety things that could work out eventually.
Disadvantages are a) Doesn't lend itself to wedging, so if you're not working with the lean - disregard and b) You need bar length to get through the bigger wood.
Look at the last big tree photo by Dennis Cahoon and note how the logger there didn't get the holding wood even. So what, at some point you gotta get out of Dodge and make it home at night.
Ekka
Addicted to ArboristSite
Be careful Smoke guy, have you heard about the old dogs and new tricks story?
Well, some folk around these parts should!
Hey Gypo, check this out, you missing out mate!
http://palmtreeservices.com.au/hk2/hellskitchenII.htm
Hahahaha
Well, some folk around these parts should!
Hey Gypo, check this out, you missing out mate!
http://palmtreeservices.com.au/hk2/hellskitchenII.htm
Hahahaha
CoreyTMorine
User Formerly known as BlueSpruce
So how does everybody check their gun. I use the line on my saw alot, but i have better luck walking around and standing 10 or 15 feet in front of the face. i stand sideways to the lay, and hold my arms out straight, then look down my right arm to the face and down my left to the lay. That works pretty well, not as good as gunning sticks though, but their always over in the truck.
Kaka walks around to the front of the tree and puts his back against the bark, above the face, like he's gonna take a crap. then he bends over like alopa's avatar to make sure he is square to the face-cut then he stands up and looks down the lay. the whole procedure looks stupid as hell, but it works pretty good. Bob is a firewood guy, but he's done his share of land clearing.
Paul stands behind the face cut, reaches around the tree and sticks his index fingers in the corners of the face-cut. he never looks down the lay really, its like he has x-ray vission and can see right through the tree, hes pretty accurate. Paul is more a climber than a faller, and iv'e only seen him do that up in a tree, but sometimes not very far up .
Most everone else i know walks down the lay 30 or 50 feet and looks back to the face to cut. That or they just site up the handle on the saw.
Oh yeah, that picture over there is dumb and some guy is dumb and AS is dumb and i'm real clever. Just a few words to try and stay on topic, what was the topic again?
Kaka walks around to the front of the tree and puts his back against the bark, above the face, like he's gonna take a crap. then he bends over like alopa's avatar to make sure he is square to the face-cut then he stands up and looks down the lay. the whole procedure looks stupid as hell, but it works pretty good. Bob is a firewood guy, but he's done his share of land clearing.
Paul stands behind the face cut, reaches around the tree and sticks his index fingers in the corners of the face-cut. he never looks down the lay really, its like he has x-ray vission and can see right through the tree, hes pretty accurate. Paul is more a climber than a faller, and iv'e only seen him do that up in a tree, but sometimes not very far up
.Most everone else i know walks down the lay 30 or 50 feet and looks back to the face to cut. That or they just site up the handle on the saw.
Oh yeah, that picture over there is dumb and some guy is dumb and AS is dumb and i'm real clever. Just a few words to try and stay on topic, what was the topic again?
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CoreyTMorine
User Formerly known as BlueSpruce
That was a great thread RB, thanks for linking it.
I've always been of the mindset that your better off sacrificing some wood for acuracy in tight quarters like that. And the idea of bringing in a ringer even if you could do the job yourself is brilliant. he didn't have to worry about money, or customer, or insurance, or cleanup, or neighbors, none of the little details that can be so distracting. The ability to focus completely on one aspect of a job certainly makes that aspect easier to get right.
I'm pretty conservative on my own jobs, i try just to take the "easy" ones, and if i do get a doosey i don't hesitate to parter up with someone. By the same token other companies will set me up doing very technical or low margin jobs and everything goes fine.
I think its just too much to have in one's head all at the same time. Much better to spread the responsibility out a little bit.
Almost forgot; Dumb dumby head thing over there. that wass a dumby thing to say, dumby.
I've always been of the mindset that your better off sacrificing some wood for acuracy in tight quarters like that. And the idea of bringing in a ringer even if you could do the job yourself is brilliant. he didn't have to worry about money, or customer, or insurance, or cleanup, or neighbors, none of the little details that can be so distracting. The ability to focus completely on one aspect of a job certainly makes that aspect easier to get right.
I'm pretty conservative on my own jobs, i try just to take the "easy" ones, and if i do get a doosey i don't hesitate to parter up with someone. By the same token other companies will set me up doing very technical or low margin jobs and everything goes fine.
I think its just too much to have in one's head all at the same time. Much better to spread the responsibility out a little bit.
Almost forgot; Dumb dumby head thing over there. that wass a dumby thing to say, dumby.
chris_girard
ArboristSite Member
Just remember, that when using the "gunning" sights on your saw, if you aim exactly where you want the center of the tree to fall, you will be off to the left.
Remember that the line of sight IS NOT the center of the trunk, but a line to the right of the trunk when using the sights on your saw. This line may be a foot or more to the right of the center of the trunk.
Thus, you must compensate for this by actually aiming where you want the right side of the tree to land, not the center.
Remember that the line of sight IS NOT the center of the trunk, but a line to the right of the trunk when using the sights on your saw. This line may be a foot or more to the right of the center of the trunk.
Thus, you must compensate for this by actually aiming where you want the right side of the tree to land, not the center.
CoreyTMorine
User Formerly known as BlueSpruce
I ussually pull trees to the right anyway. A function of my technique, and Pinus strobus. The Pines will pull alot of root if you don't cut the hinge as it falls. Dad always called the root wood that pulled out a "scaf". He really based his felling around this phenominon, saying it was better to pull the wood than to cut it off. His trees most always drifted towards the "scaf", ussually right hand side.
Part of the issue is cutting 20"+ trees with a 20" or even 18" bar. I ussually plunge cut out the low side of the tree (the side under the lean) default the right side or 3 o'clock if the face is towards 12 o'clock. Anyway, i ussually plunge cut one side of the tree, and set up my hinge on that side, then come around and finesh the back cut from the other side.
What this sets up is a preset hinge that i can't cut as the tree falls. And with white pine even a moderately narrow hinge (say 2" on a 20" - 28" dbh tree) will cause a scaf to pull out. Rather than fight this effect with a longer bar or "nipping the side", i find it easier to accept it and compensate accordingly.
I'm thinking that the "scaf" effect is more pronounced in the fall, sept, oct, and novemeber. The wood seems to have less sap and so rather than bend or break as in the spring and early summer it will rip down the grain, pulling a root section up with it.
Towards the end of august i was topping and dropping 8, 10, and 12 footers. man that wood was strong, i had a couple of 8's fall 35 or 40 degrees and stop short. it was a very thin hinge that held the log from falling over. And with the tops and longer logs if i didn't cut the hinge right off it would pull hard to the strong side of the hinge or any hinge wood that was left.
That was up in New Hampshire somewhere, Newboston, or somewhere the other side of chappel tractor, not sure without looking at a map. Wherever i'm not sure if the woods toughness was due to the time of year or the dry summer, or if it was just a local effect specific to those trees. What do you think?
Part of the issue is cutting 20"+ trees with a 20" or even 18" bar. I ussually plunge cut out the low side of the tree (the side under the lean) default the right side or 3 o'clock if the face is towards 12 o'clock. Anyway, i ussually plunge cut one side of the tree, and set up my hinge on that side, then come around and finesh the back cut from the other side.
What this sets up is a preset hinge that i can't cut as the tree falls. And with white pine even a moderately narrow hinge (say 2" on a 20" - 28" dbh tree) will cause a scaf to pull out. Rather than fight this effect with a longer bar or "nipping the side", i find it easier to accept it and compensate accordingly.
I'm thinking that the "scaf" effect is more pronounced in the fall, sept, oct, and novemeber. The wood seems to have less sap and so rather than bend or break as in the spring and early summer it will rip down the grain, pulling a root section up with it.
Towards the end of august i was topping and dropping 8, 10, and 12 footers. man that wood was strong, i had a couple of 8's fall 35 or 40 degrees and stop short. it was a very thin hinge that held the log from falling over. And with the tops and longer logs if i didn't cut the hinge right off it would pull hard to the strong side of the hinge or any hinge wood that was left.
That was up in New Hampshire somewhere, Newboston, or somewhere the other side of chappel tractor, not sure without looking at a map. Wherever i'm not sure if the woods toughness was due to the time of year or the dry summer, or if it was just a local effect specific to those trees. What do you think?
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Gypo Logger said:
i think that Beranek got the t-shirt, poster, even wrote the book, so i doubt if any of us could come close; are you implying that you could/do?
Daily, in rigging cuts, i do not cut thru the hingewood, until the spar is brought around under the rigging's redirect. i use the hinge as a second support to the rig(as like it was a second rope tied on either side of the Facecut), that is then disposable when the spar is brought around. Then, i cut thru it; and allow the line to carry the load. As long as the hinge holds on, you have some control over direction and speed; even in felling. After tearoff, the tree is thrown/ a free agent; and any control is just residual from when the mighty spar was still as one with the hinge. i make wide open faces, as the angle of openness dictates the outer constraint on how long the hinge holds on. i can always slice it off earlier and change my mind; but never add to it, once the cuts are maid. So, for full capacity of choices, i set wide to start generally. This control can give more buffering to the speed of fall, to impact lawn, underground pipes, and the sea of underground tree associates less.
RB; you've shown great work , humbly all ways and always; also handled yo'self in exemplary fashion in these forums for about a decade now. i don't think i or anyone else has had trouble with all that!
i have nothing against loggers that don't strip out Nature/ de-Nature. In years past here at AS; i've played on the parody of lil'climber vs. big logger as long as it was in fun/positive energy. Then, in building and cross compairing my theories; i always went to the loggers in Chainsaw for the broader spectrum of commonalities, that should rule both worlds of hinging science. When it got nasty; that negativity was the dust i shook from my sandals as i moved on.
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