question on single rope climbing...

[moss]

I think we're falling into the trap of trying to teach climbing to beginners on the message board, probably a bad idea. The new climber is better off doing the research (Jepson's, Peter Jenkin's climbing basics video, etc.), start climbing low and slow and then ask specific questions. Once we start lecturing on broad topics of how-to-climb for beginners we're not really in a position to take responsibility for the results of the advice we're giving.

Here's a way to test it. Say you have a 17 year old son or daughter who wants to learn to climb and you're not available to teach them. Would you point them to this thread and say, "Do what they say". Would you feel comfortable with that? Something to think about.

 

[clearance]

I think we're falling into the trap of trying to teach climbing to beginners on the message board, probably a bad idea. The new climber is better off doing the research (Jepson's, Peter Jenkin's climbing basics video, etc.), start climbing low and slow and then ask specific questions. Once we start lecturing on broad topics of how-to-climb for beginners we're not really in a position to take responsibility for the results of the advice we're giving.

Here's a way to test it. Say you have a 17 year old son or daughter who wants to learn to climb and you're not available to teach them. Would you point them to this thread and say, "Do what they say". Would you feel comfortable with that? Something to think about.

Good point there Andrew, Dean, try to go to work with some utility guys, they usually are brutal but effective climbers. Safe and simple, baby steps they say, if it aint broke don't fix it.

 

[Tree Machine]

I am a bit baffled by the talk of switching to a DbRT or DdRT once you are up in the tree. Why would I need to do that? What is it about the SRT equipment that makes this undersireable?

You do that because you work the crown while on rope, sinking your flipline for positioning and cutting. The 'equipment' problem is that SRT is viewed from everybody's standpoint from' how does the friction hitch fit into SRT? The 'equipment' problem is that once you learn to climb on 2:1 DdRT, thoughts and possibilites of climbing without the friction hitch, for some reason melt. The equipment is minimal and exceedingly simple. The 'problem' is a mental hurdle, mebbe fear of the unknown. It has nothing to do with the actual gear.

It appears to be another way to tie into the tree from above, but I would not really be using it to CLIMB.

True, you're climbing the tree, which is going to be the case a lot of the time, especially on the size trees you're beginning with, as well as most all other trees once you've ascended into the crown.

I guess I see DdRT the same as using REALLY long flipline/lanyard.

The difference being the rope would allow you to rappel out, the flipline being used for immediate zone positioning. For your medium maples, clip the rope to your harness, climb up there, flipline in, drop your rope over a tie-in, clip yourself in (or for the hitch tyer, tie yourself in). At this point you're tied in twice and ready to make a cut. You have just 'switched over'.

However, looking forward to bigger projects, the prospect of having rope friction in the crotch of the tree is not attractive. Neither am I all that thrilled with the need to use a cambium/friction saver to continue to use that technique without the above concern. I am not REALLY concerned with climbing all that fast, so the fact that this would be a 2:1 system really doesn't concern me.

But a 2:1 system is what you get with DdRT, friction of the rope sliding over the crotch. The prospect of limb or crotch friction is not appealing, yet a 2:1 system is OK. These two sentences collide with each other.

Reading what I have, the DbRT really looks interesting... footlocking sounds reasonable as the propulsive force, but I find references to needing back ups for doubled-rope ascenders. So do I need to sliding hitches on each segment of rope above those ascenders?

Footlocking can be done on ANY of the three systems, though with the 2:1 traditional friction hitch system you have to footlock two lengths of rope through your feet to gain one length of gain in altitude. It's like walking up a steep sand hill where you go up two steps and come back down one. You'll eventually get up there. This is traditional DdRT.

Maybe instead of our climbing family viewing SRT as some fancy dancy, far-out technique, view the friction hitch system for the inherent limitations it puts on your climbing. SRT is the same steep hill, just firm dirt and rock instead of soft sand.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Quote TM:

Footlocking can be done on ANY of the three systems, though with the 2:1 traditional friction hitch system you have to footlock two lengths of rope through your feet to gain one length of gain in altitude. It's like walking up a steep sand hill where you go up two steps and come back down one. You'll eventually get up there. This is traditional DdRT.

Maybe instead of our climbing family viewing SRT as some fancy dancy, far-out technique, view the friction hitch system for the inherent limitations it puts on your climbing. SRT is the same steep hill, just firm dirt and rock instead of soft sand.

****

More rope access work is done off SRT than DdRT by a long shot. The work that arbos do requires movement up and down the rope, this is the unique part of arbo rope access.

I wrote an article on SRT for TCI magazine a while ago. If you want to read the article, let me know...

Rather than tieing off the access line to the base of the tree a better solution is to run it through a belay device. My favorite is a rack. Some people use a Gri-Gri but I feel that they have too many limitations. If a person needs to be rescued a groundie, with previous instruction, can lower the climber without actually going into the tree in most circumstances.

Every year more and more arbos are learning how much better SRT access is than any traditional access technique. In some cases treework can be done completely on SRT.

I've spend time working on some gear/climbing hitch combinations that will ascend and descend a rope without a changeover. The perfect setup is elusive but I know that there is a solution.

If you want to see one mechanical ascent/descent solution, go to Gary Storrick's site, or Google, "unicender"

Strong limbs and single ropes!

 

[Tree Machine]

I wrote an article on SRT for TCI magazine a while ago. If you want to read the article, let me know...

May I? I have this one bookmarked in my personal library.

Click here for Tom's TCIA feature

I was comparing Tommy's article with Daniel's SRT article just yesterday. Both are excellent, and well-presented, Tommy's with a strong vein of political correctness and lingual precision, Daniel's a fresh, new presentation, more hardware-based (ascenders anyway) and great clarity on backing the ascenders up.

Still, It's stuff I've been doing since the early 90's, and I'm not bragging this, I just never learned how to use the 2:1 friction hitch until much later and by then it would have been going backwards as far as productivity and overall climbing abilities. It's more about the physics than it is of me as a climber. A traditional or even advanced 2:1 friction hitch system pits too much friction against man.

However, this topic isn't exactly about that. Sorry.

 

[Tree Machine]

Here's the download on the lowdown on Daniel Murphy's article, actually the entire June 2006 TCIA magazine. Daniel's SRT article starts on page 10.