Questions about a Box or Bundled Firewood Vendor

[TreeManII]

I am a newbie to this site on firewood, but own a business that builds and sells high security vending machines in the self-serve car wash industry. Our company has been doing this for over 10 years and we have experience in designing and building from the ground up vending machines that are simple, reliable, and secure against vandalism. I am a mechanical engineer (UCLA 1957) by training and have few years of experience making equipment work reliably.

The idea of designing and building a firewood box or bundle vendor was presented to me by a man in Idaho who saw one of my Hi-Security vendors in a car wash there. He liked what he saw of my work and here I am asking for help from you professional firewood people. In my younger years I made and sold olive tree firewood by the cord, so I know how much work sawing and making firewood can be. I have searched this site for threads on firewood vending machines and found two; one was by Halsey 2007 and one was by “havsawwilltravl” 2009. I read all the feedback. I “googled” firewood vending machines and added the “westcoastwoodchuck” vending machine to my research. There may be more info out there, but I haven’t found it. I have also read the patent abstract filed by Halsey in 2007. The information supplied and/or read by me indicates that firewood that is normally sold for $150-$200 a cord can be processed and sold in 0.75 cubic foot bundles or boxes for approximately $850 a cord equivalent. We see these firewood boxes or bundles even here in grocery and C-stores in California.

So now I seek information from the “real” people who make the firewood. Here are the vending machine specs: Hi-security, reliable, simple to operate, has a “Guaranteed Delivery” feature, accepts $1-$20 bills, coins, can accept credit cards as payment, and gives change to the customer. If this machine can be built to sell in the $8000-$10,000 retail price range, is there a market for this vendor? Believe it or not all those specs above are being used now in our vendors for the car wash business. One last feature that can be done is that this vending machine can be placed in campgrounds and national parks and made to run on solar power!

So now you guys and gals tell me what you like, don’t like, or want to see in this machine. Anything is possible if you have the money to pay for it.

TreeManII

 

[treefarm1348]

I am a newbie to this site on firewood, but own a business that builds and sells high security vending machines in the self-serve car wash industry. Our company has been doing this for over 10 years and we have experience in designing and building from the ground up vending machines that are simple, reliable, and secure against vandalism. I am a mechanical engineer (UCLA 1957) by training and have few years of experience making equipment work reliably.

The idea of designing and building a firewood box or bundle vendor was presented to me by a man in Idaho who saw one of my Hi-Security vendors in a car wash there. He liked what he saw of my work and here I am asking for help from you professional firewood people. In my younger years I made and sold olive tree firewood by the cord, so I know how much work sawing and making firewood can be. I have searched this site for threads on firewood vending machines and found two; one was by Halsey 2007 and one was by “havsawwilltravl” 2009. I read all the feedback. I “googled” firewood vending machines and added the “westcoastwoodchuck” vending machine to my research. There may be more info out there, but I haven’t found it. I have also read the patent abstract filed by Halsey in 2007. The information supplied and/or read by me indicates that firewood that is normally sold for $150-$200 a cord can be processed and sold in 0.75 cubic foot bundles or boxes for approximately $850 a cord equivalent. We see these firewood boxes or bundles even here in grocery and C-stores in California.

So now I seek information from the “real” people who make the firewood. Here are the vending machine specs: Hi-security, reliable, simple to operate, has a “Guaranteed Delivery” feature, accepts $1-$20 bills, coins, can accept credit cards as payment, and gives change to the customer. If this machine can be built to sell in the $8000-$10,000 retail price range, is there a market for this vendor? Believe it or not all those specs above are being used now in our vendors for the car wash business. One last feature that can be done is that this vending machine can be placed in campgrounds and national parks and made to run on solar power!

So now you guys and gals tell me what you like, don’t like, or want to see in this machine. Anything is possible if you have the money to pay for it.

TreeManII

 

[treefarm1348]

TreeManII: Your vending machine for firewood bundles sounds great! Please advise me of your progress towards producing a working model. I'm definitely in the market for a vending machine with the specs. that you describe, and your price estimate seems workable. I'll look forward to your reply. treefarm1348

 

[zogger]

TreeManII: Your vending machine for firewood bundles sounds great! Please advise me of your progress towards producing a working model. I'm definitely in the market for a vending machine with the specs. that you describe, and your price estimate seems workable. I'll look forward to your reply. treefarm1348

This is an old thread, man.

 

[cantoo]

So, the machine should be up and running by now?

 

[GeeVee]

Ought to be able to buy them used on Craigslist now?

 

[cantoo]

Opps, might have egg on our faces GeeVee. Google images for "firewood vending machine" there the darn thing is, wonder if it's the same guy?

 

[TreeManII]

treefarm1348,

Yes, the fire wood vending machine is still in my shop as a proto-type and we had it working. The man who wanted me to build it had some financial problems, so it just kinda stopped. It was designed to vend cardboard boxes of wood (0.75 cubic feet) so it takes 16" long split wood. The boxes are 16" L X 10" W X 6"H with the wood being 7-8" high and then being shrink wrapped to hold it together. The vendor is capable of holding 50 of these bundles in 10 conveyors. We did some test vending of various types of firewood packages to see what type of packaging was needed to make the machine reliably. The firewood package needs a flat bottom to roll down the conveyors and feed the vending mechanism. We had some success but didn't put it out in the real world because the man who wanted it had his problems. The packaging of the firewood is the secret to making my machine (or any vending machine) work reliably versus all the other firewood vendors that use belts to deliver the bundles. I see these firewood bundles all the time at our local grocery store and most are just bundles (0.7 cu ft) wrapped in shrink wrap with a rope handle stapled on the wood. Hot Fire is the brand name on them. My own observation these days is that cardboard cartons are just too expensive to put firewood into and compete with these plastic wrapped bundles.

I think the machine is still viable to vend firewood in 0.7 cu ft packages that are shrink wrapped, but we need to find a cheap way to put a flat bottom on the package and shrink wrap it all together. I don't know where you are located but we can at least chat about it and maybe you could bring a new approach or idea to make it work. Since this was first posted the electronics has improved and the credit systems are much improved with audible feedback to the customer. Lighted keypads, LED lighting, and other technology is now available to make this vendor secure and reliable. We learned many techniques and ideas from building this vendor which we carried over into our new machines that we are now building. We can build these vendors now that are available to the public 24/7/365 with no vandalism or theft and will survive all kinds of weather conditions. Look us up on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/bigeagle37

To the other gentleman skeptics: We are not any of the machines you can google and there is no published info on our prototype. It is one of a kind. Treefarm1348 may have an idea or new technique that just might make it all come together.

 

[blades]

some of 1x2s side by side a couple across to tag them together splits on top[ , shrink wrap whole 9 yards, so now have kindling included with flat base and likely still wiggle a grab handle in there.

 

[TreeManII]

blades,

Not a bad idea!! As you say now you have kindling and splits all in one package. I'm waiting for a replay from treefarm1348 on my answer to his post. Thanks, blades.

 

[TreeManII]

TreeManII: Your vending machine for firewood bundles sounds great! Please advise me of your progress towards producing a working model. I'm definitely in the market for a vending machine with the specs. that you describe, and your price estimate seems workable. I'll look forward to your reply. treefarm1348

treefarm1348----Are you still out there??

TreemanII

 

[CRThomas]

We had a vending firewood machine in our big National Park it didn't last long I am back to selling bundled firewood to a station at the edge of the park the machine is gone now don't know what kind it was. Later

 

[TreeManII]

We had a vending firewood machine in our big National Park it didn't last long I am back to selling bundled firewood to a station at the edge of the park the machine is gone now don't know what kind it was. Later

CR,

Good to hear from you. You have some experience with existing firewood vending machines which all the others i have talked haven't had. You say it didn't last long; too hard for the customer to use, vandalized, didn't work, what??? I like to talk to you on the phone or you could email me your phone number and I will call you on my cell. I need some real world input so I can finish the vendor I have and make sure that it is secure and works. Can even power it with solar. I can email you pix of what I do building secure vending machines that are open 24/7/365. See pix above showing my firewood vendor.

TreemanII email: [email protected]

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

Johns welding sells one, it uses doors kind of like the old time soda machines.

I haven't had any theft with a self serve stand. I usually put out 10 bundles at a time and often have $10-30 over the $50 the bundles would have netted.

Dropping 10-15k on a vending machine isn't in the cards for me.

 

[blades]

Bundles seem to be the only thing selling well around these parts this season and of course Oak, but mixed and such isn't going anywhere fast. This information is gathered from various persons in the firewood business which I am not.

 

[woodshax]

There have been a lot of half hearted attempts to make a firewood vending machine and the wood express model has had the most success and is mentioned as being in or around quite a few state parks and camping areas, it is a conveyor belt type system that is housed in a large shed type structure. The advent of new, small and inexpensive programmable MCUs for controlling operations and secure cell phone telemetry for cashless credit card sales helps as well. We have a model out on the streets and just finished Beta testing at three Texas State parks.... Last week during spring break we sold over $2000 in firewood.....using a little less than 2 (full) cords to do it. Testing went well and we have built our first production model limited run to meet the demand from other local state parks. We are ramping up to meet the demand from out side our local area.... These machines are modular, scalable and can vend more than just .75 CuFt bags....they can vend anything that fits in the compartment....We sell charcoal, cases of water, large bags of wood, small bags, wood chips for grilling, and even small covered grills so campers can cook out during burn bans but did not pack the right kind of grill. Selling wood at $1100 to $1200 a cord is nice.

 

[sb47]

Here is the biggest problem with this idea. To be able to ship and dispense firewood, it has to be kiln dried.
Kiln drying smoking wood is "not" the ideal way to cure smoking wood.
Every buyer that I talk with, hates buying kiln dry firewood for smoking.
No doubt some will try it for the connivance, but they may drift back to there old supplier's once the discover the difference. If there just wanting firewood for camping, it may work in some locations.
Good luck with it.

 

[woodshax]

Here is the biggest problem with this idea. To be able to ship and dispense firewood, it has to be kiln dried.
Kiln drying smoking wood is "not" the ideal way to cure smoking wood.
Every buyer that I talk with, hates buying kiln dry firewood for smoking.
No doubt some will try it for the connivance, but they may drift back to there old supplier's once the discover the difference. If there just wanting firewood for camping, it may work in some locations.
Good luck with it.

The main market for this is camp grounds and as many states have already decreed that you must buy local or heat treated there are less and less people who are allowed to bring firewood from home so this is a great way for the parks to assure that the wood is local/ or heat treated and sold only on park grounds so the vendor that uses this machine can take a lions share of the market. I have 8 parks that are on a waiting list to get a machine (or multiple machines) our model is that we supply the machine, the product and maintain it and the State gets 10% of the gross before taxes. The machines are cashless and I have real time information (1 or 2 minute delay) on exactly what has sold so that I can restock before it goes to zero balance. I am keeping the local parks so that I can use the machines as test beds for improvements, modifications, upgrades and to capture sales metrics. I have guys, already in the wood business, that I have secured interest in parks in their area who can buy the machine (when I get caught up) and have a market ready to go for them....and as campers want to burn wood no matter what the weather, this allows them year round wood sales at a much greater profit than selling by the cord. Last July the lowest temp at the park (in Texas) was 82 degrees at night and the machine did $760 worth of sales. As for grill wood....and out of state transportation and sales....well, when I buy my grilling wood...I just re-hydrate it and I am ready to go.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

$1200/cord?! That's about $12/bundle! I'd get laughed away! Going rate is usually $5 here.

 

[shorty2000us]

If my math is correct, more like $7/bundle.

128cf÷.75= ~170 bundles

$1200 ÷ 170 bundles = ~$7