Rakers

[Zodiac45]

The final and finest tune your going to give your saw, after you matched the bar length and chain to the engine. To match the work you want from your saw in the type of cutting you do in the wood you cut. You match the DG's and cutter angle's.

Just a rule of thumb, as mentioned, how grabby the saw is, I like a saw that needs just a little to hold it out of the wood, then one that needs a little lean into the wood.

Just some ideas for a trend...

A 660 with a 24" bar ,in green Ponderosia Pine (Yellow Pine) could use a heavy .035" DG's with 35 Deg's on the cutters.

A 290 with a 24" in in solid dry or frozzen hardwood could use a light .025" DG's and a less then 30 Deg cutter.

A good from the hip std grind would be .030" DG's with a 30 deg cutter.

Lots engine- little bar, lots DG . Little engine, lots bar, little DG,,,, Little sharpening, lite-wood lots angle, lots sharpening, heavy-hard wood, lighten up on the angle.

I'm sure there out there, but I never ran a saw that needed or could have used less then .020 DG's (on a 3/8th chain) (Wild-thinggies and small saws might need something near .020" DG's?)

I ground them, but didn't like them, more then .040" DG's , there just too grabby for a work chain,,,,,there like work.

Just rules of thumb, $0.02 cents worth.

+1 for Shoe,

That's the attitude I use too. I will generally touch the rakers the first time I sharpen a new chain (only because I've found them too be high out of the box). Then not again untill I can feel that it's not grabbing as much or rather I need to push a little. You can look at your chips too. When cutting really hard, frozen, or dry hardwood that's been sitting a couple years, I use an older chain that been sharpened many times and has small teeth (Hen's teeth, we call em). We sharpen right back too witness mark (almost) before throwing it away. These chains work well in the hardest, driest, or frozen wood.

 

[Stihl #1]

This is how you use a depth gauge tool to verify that the raker (depth gauge) is not too high or low. This tool can be bought with different settings, as mentioned, .020, .030, etc. I place it on the chain with the chain flat in the middle of the bar, and if the raker is sticking up, then remove the tool, file the raker, then recheck. I dont want to file off the tool.

If the chain is a reduced kickback version, the tool must have a wide slot on it so the depth gauge and the reduced kickback hump can both be checked.

Here are the STIHL depth gauge tools and applications:

Depth Gauge Tools
Part Number
PMN use 0.017” (0.45mm) 0000 893 4000
¼”, PM, .325”, 3/8” use 0.026” (0.65mm) 1110 893 4000
.404” use 0.031” (0.80mm) 1106-893-4000

The above depth gauge tools will work for green and yellow family chains. These have the wide slot.

.020” Depth Gauge Tool 1110 893 4001
.025” Depth Gauge Tool 1110 893 4002
.030” Depth Gauge Tool 1110 893 4003
.035” Depth Gauge Tool 1110 893 4004

The above depth gauge tools will only work for yellow family chains.

Green family is the reduced kickback type of chain, and for STIHL there will be one green tie strap somewhere on the chain. Yellow is not reduced kickback and will be marked with a yellow tie strap.

 

[Crofter]

"but to grind the "rakers" the opposite direction (if done on the grinder like the 510) because the chain will rock sideways less."

"I always file my rakers the same direction as their respective teeth. The reason being that I think it helps cut down on the "fingernails on chalkboard" noise a bit. God, I hate that sound."


Yes, and yes! You will not get identical clearance on each side if you file all from one side of the bar because of chain rock the one raker moves away from centre and down and the nearer side move toward center and up. Doing on the grinder this is compounded by error of arc of wheel not being always exactly centered on midline of chain. It is not a big deal aside from the finger nail on blackboard noise, Lol! but it does lend the possibility of uneven wear on your bar rails and chain rails. Filing on the raker gauge dulls both the file and the tooth.

 

[HolmenTree]

I see everyone here has good points on filing rakers. In my early years filing chain I too was concerned about the metal depth gauge tool [gauget] dulling the cutters .What I found was a Australian made hard plastic gauget with a hard steel insert plate. The hard plastic never wore out or dulled the cutters.But over the years as I gained experience just freehand filing on the rakers was all I needed. I always run .025" on mine , when the tooth is down to the laser mark then they are around .040".[ 8 tooth drive sprocket on 80c.c. and over saws . 7 tooth on 80c.c. and under saws.]

An interesting note though, a chain filed with .010" rakers cuts faster then one with .025" rakers . Use a stop watch and try it!

Willard.

 

[Crofter]

I agree with there being little effective dulling on a round filed work chain from the bottom of the hardened raker guage but you can see the effect on a delicately square filed competition chain.

If a saw has lots of rpm capability the higher raker can be faster for sure but I wouldnt bet the rent money if you tried it on an 090! I sure like the feel of a higher raker and it does not beat up the bar, chain, sprocket and my hands as much but you do have to keep the chain right sharp to make it work.

 

[SawTroll]

This is how you use a depth gauge tool to verify that the raker (depth gauge) is not too high or low. This tool can be bought with different settings, as mentioned, .020, .030, etc. I place it on the chain with the chain flat in the middle of the bar, and if the raker is sticking up, then remove the tool, file the raker, then recheck. I dont want to file off the tool.

......

That kind of gauge is pretty useless, unless the cutters are exacly the same lenght - and they don't really need to be.

It sits on top of two or more cutters, and don't set the raker to the individual tooth.

 

[Metals406]

I'm sure some purists are gonna cringe at this but... I hit them with a 4-1/2" grinder. I do it by eye, and it's super fast. I just went out and measured them, and they're all within a few 10ths. It's a full chisel 3/8 .050, with a .031 GD, 30 degree tooth, no hook, and near 90* shoulder.

In the past I have run the same chain at around .046 DG, 40 degree tooth, and heavy hook. That configuration is EXTREMELY AGGRESSIVE, and tends to chatter... The 40* tooth was more sensitive to knots and dirt too. I feel my current config. works optimally.

[/.2cents]

 

[Crofter]

That kind of gauge is pretty useless, unless the cutters are exacly the same lenght - and they don't really need to be.

It sits on top of two or more cutters, and don't set the raker to the individual tooth.

Saw Troll, If you look at the distance from raker to cutter on the tooth you are setting, and factor in the ratio of the distance to the next supporting cutter, I think you would agree that any discrepancy in height between the two cutters would induce a very small error in raker clearances. Compare this to the likely error of merely counting strokes or hits with an angle grinder it is rocket science. Lol!

I agree that mathematically it is a factor but I dont agree with allowing that gross a discrepancy of cutter length so that it is ever a legitimate argument.

How is that for quibbling?

 

[Stihl #1]

Saw Troll, If you look at the distance from raker to cutter on the tooth you are setting, and factor in the ratio of the distance to the next supporting cutter, I think you would agree that any discrepancy in height between the two cutters would induce a very small error in raker clearances. Compare this to the likely error of merely counting strokes or hits with an angle grinder it is rocket science. Lol!

I agree that mathematically it is a factor but I dont agree with allowing that gross a discrepancy of cutter length so that it is ever a legitimate argument.

How is that for quibbling?

And shouldn't all the cutters be the same height and length anyway???

 

[HolmenTree]

I agree with there being little effective dulling on a round filed work chain from the bottom of the hardened raker guage but you can see the effect on a delicately square filed competition chain.

If a saw has lots of rpm capability the higher raker can be faster for sure but I wouldnt bet the rent money if you tried it on an 090! I sure like the feel of a higher raker and it does not beat up the bar, chain, sprocket and my hands as much but you do have to keep the chain right sharp to make it work.

Ha,ha I agree Frank about the 090 and .010" rakers! Its funny you say that because after I wrote that post and clicked the submit button I thought "I sure hope no one gets the idea of using an 090G with the .010"rakers."

Check my 090 pictures and story post #36 on the Weekend report 4/4-4/6/2008 thread. And way back[page 8] I posted pictures of my Yamaha hotsaw #55 on the Mac 125 Competition saw thread.
Both of these saws I run .010", especially the 090 in the huge paper roll.

Willard.:greenchainsaw: