Regarding the value of burning firewood.

[farmerboybill]

Another post about the value of firewood got me thinking, but I didn't think my comments would help his thread, so I'll post them on their own.

I look at it like this -

I bought the farm August 2010. The winter of 2010 was bitterly cold here. The house was built in 1929 (big and not well insulated) and has a fuel oil furnace. It cost me over $2000 to buy fuel for the furnace. Last winter was milder, but fuel has gone up. I figure it would have cost me $2000 again.

Spring 2011, I found and bought an outdoor gasification furnace for $6500. $750 to install. 5 saws for $100 to $250 each ~$900. Splitter for $300. $100 for other toys (axe, maul, hookaroon, cant hook, etc - all used). So I got $8250 to $9000 into heating my own home. I can't really put the cost of tractors, trailers, etc on this list 'cause I would own them anyway. Heck, even the saws pry shouldn't be on here because they're needed for fencerow and field road maintenance, and would be owned even had I not bought the OWB.

The wood is free. I have 90 acres of woods and several miles of fencelines on 360 acres. Trees need to be cleared to improve pastures and fencelines. How do I calculate the cost of my labor and fuel in this work? Do I debit it from heating the house or from the farm for maintenance?

I don't sell firewood. Firewood sellers around here are crazy anyway. They'll sell a pickup load of split Oak (maybe 2/3 cord?) for $65-$80. I'm not putting that kind of work into that kind of money.

Basically, I think I'm getting maximum value outta my wood and I don't sell a single stick of it. The stove will pay for itself in 5 years and I'll be heating the house for "free" thereafter...

 

[stihly dan]

I paid about $3000 for heat with my oil boiler for the yr at $3.50 gal. $650 for wood stove, 2yrs free, sold stove for same price. Spent $5000 for gasification furnace, should use less wood = less work all the way around. payback 1 1/2 yrs with decreased cost of hot water. Then profit as prices increase. Now I should be spending less $$ than any other time of yr. Winter used to be financially tough. Now its a savings. Worth every penny and more. And no more ladies bithing about temp, PRICELESS!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[rmount]

I don't have to cost my labour as I'm retired and need to fill my days and wouldn't be earning money if i wasn't cutting. Plus all the tools i use for getting firewood I own anyhow. So my cost for burning wood are the onetime cost of the woodstove and chimney, maintenance, fuel, and supplies. It would cost me $1500 or so for propane each year and that money just stays in my pocket instead of going to the propane man

 

[greendohn]

Yep. What you guys said.

I'm just a home owner/scrounger.

It's a choice, of sorts. A life style, and a sense of pride.

I'm not a slave to the "gas man".

 

[Whitespider]

I’ve never spent anything close to $6500.oo on a wood-fired appliance… most I’ve either built or modified into what I wanted. My current furnace (a modified stove given to me) cost me well under $300.oo to modify/build and install, which I did myself. I believe that’s the most dollars I’ve ever sunk into a wood-fired appliance.

I’ve never owned five saws at one time, the most would be three… but I’ve reduced that to one which I’ve owned for over twenty years and it owes me nothing. The splitter… dad bought it some thirty years ago, now it’s mine and it owes me nothing. A few axes and mauls; yep, paid something for them, but most of the other stuff I build myself from the scrap steel I always seem to have around… just the cost of welding rod I guess.

When I first burned wood for heat (thirty some years ago) I started with a used barrel stove salvaged from dad’s shed, an old splittin’ maul from a flea market and a $70.oo Poulan saw from the hardware store. Over the years I’ve up-graded and/or added things only as they became available for free… or really, really cheap (such as flea markets, garage sales and such). Other than that $70.oo Poulan, the only thing I’ve ever purchased brand-spankin’-new is the saw I have now… a Stihl 026 bought around 1990.

I always felt that burning wood for heat was to save money, not spend money.
From day-one I’ve realized savings… and I’ve worked hard (worked my azz off at times) to keep it that way.

Five years for a wood-fired appliance to pay for itself? Heck man, five years from now the government could be giving us free heat along with this (supposedly) "free" healthcare thing. :hmm3grin2orange:

Just yankin' your chain a bit. I bet the new wood burner is a real nice appliance... just not my way is all.

 

[Ductape]

One small detail I'll add. Its not just the savings of burning wood versus heating oil...... but how much warmet our house is. My wife wouldn't like the 68 degrees our house would be all winter burning oil. It is soooo much more comfortable with wood. You know what they say........ happy wife, happy life !

 

[Streblerm]

I look at firewood as a hobby that I enjoy that also pays for itself. With a simple wood stove in my house the payback was pretty quick. It covers so many likes. Dangerous mechanical devices, being outdoors, challenging physical activity, collecting/hoarding. My cutting buddy is my dad so it fosters family togetherness. I save $1500+ every year and my family is more comfortable than when I use the heat pump only. I figure as long as I can keep myself out of harm's way then it is all upside.

Lots of people have expensive, dangerous hobbies. Motorcycles, quads, mountain bikes, skiing, just to name a few. None of those have any sort of return on investment.

The other thing to consider is that collecting and burning firewood pays in after tax dollars. The money that it saves you would require earning much more.

 

[farmerboybill]

One small detail I'll add. Its not just the savings of burning wood versus heating oil...... but how much warmet our house is. My wife wouldn't like the 68 degrees our house would be all winter burning oil. It is soooo much more comfortable with wood. You know what they say........ happy wife, happy life !

You're absolutely right on that point, too. We had the house way down to 65 during the day and 59 at night during that first winter. We still keep it cool, but more like 73 daytime and 65 at night.

I’ve never spent anything close to $6500.oo on a wood-fired appliance…

Current price on most gasification OWBs are over $10,000. I kinda thought I did ok. AND I don't need to bring in all the little friends that come with hauling firewood into the house. Don't get me wrong, I'd like to have one sitting in place of the fuel oil furnace simply for emergency use (long term power outage), but the greatest thing ever invented in terms of burning wood is an OWB.

 

[Morgan in AR]

It covers so many likes. Dangerous mechanical devices, being outdoors, challenging physical activity, collecting/hoarding.

If I could "like" this ten times I would! Pretty much sums it up.

 

[ponyexpress976]

For us it was a "gateway" life style. Started us down the path of finding ways to be more self sufficient. Ashes and bark compost fertilizes the lawn. Always had a garden...just seems like we pay attention to it more and have a lot more bounty for a lot longer.

 

[Whitespider]

Current price on most gasification OWBs are over $10,000. I kinda thought I did ok. AND I don't need to bring in all the little friends that come with hauling firewood into the house.

No need to defend your choices, we all do-what-we-do... we haf'ta do what works for ourselves, not what works for someone else. And yeah, if an OWB is what works for you, $6500 is better than "OK".
Like I said, I was yankin' your chain a bit... no intent to slam ya'.

 

[Dalmatian90]

I figure my current costs for the stuff I actually use -- stove through saws, not including land and pickup since I'd own those otherwise, is $35/cord and I use four cords/year. Three saws (one bought new, and I only really need two), a Fiskars splitting ax, some felling wedges, helmet, chaps, peavy, wood cart to haul wood inside, super cheap (and highly inefficient) stove, metal chimney.

That will go up a bit when I buy a better stove, but that stove will cut my usage in half.

It may also be a bit more this year, because I'm thinking I may buy a couple cords of log length or green blocks for about $100/each just to save a bit of time I could use on other projects.

I do believe in having two saws if you're felling trees (or a buddy on speed dialer who has one) just in case something goes kerfloey -- learned my lesson years ago just after dropping a large and diseased pasture oak now in a suburban yard for a friend when a C-clip broke on the sprocket...had it been five minutes sooner when I was making the back cut but the tree wasn't ready to go over on it's own it would've created a real dangerous situation. You couldn't have just left the tree there in that state while you went to get your saw repaired. At the very minimum two bars, so if you pinch one you can swap to the other bar. But anything over two saws is just hoarding toys :yoyo:

 

[Fred Wright]

Yup it's an investment that'll pay for itself in a few years. Payback is usually far ahead of depreciation.

Since you have the property to maintain anyhow, why not use the wood for heat?

 

[Mac88]

But anything over two saws is just hoarding toys

Now wait a minute. I have more than two. My 18" main cutter does all the bigger stuff, my 12" limbing saw does all the clean-up, and the Mrs. 16 incher
is for cutting whatever she pleases, whenever she pleases. I've got a few more junkers that I was gifted with, some I got running, some not. And I'm looking for something affordable in the 60 cube range, since we're cutting a lot more big stuff than we used to. None of them are toys.

 

[ponyexpress976]

Now wait a minute. I have more than two. My 18" main cutter does all the bigger stuff, my 12" limbing saw does all the clean-up, and the Mrs. 16 incher
is for cutting whatever she pleases, whenever she pleases. I've got a few more junkers that I was gifted with, some I got running, some not. And I'm looking for something affordable in the 60 cube range, since we're cutting a lot more big stuff than we used to. None of them are toys.

As we get older, ain't it funny how the definition of "toy" changes

 

[Whitespider]

...anything over two saws is just hoarding toys

Even though I'm a 1-saw guy right now, and have been for a number of years, I gotta' disagree with that.
If you live on a woodlot and cut quite a bit of firewood a three saw plan is justifiable... something around 50cc with a 16-20 inch bar for most of the work, something 70cc or more with a long(er) bar for the "bigger" stuff, and a little top-handle for ladder work and such. A guy can "get by" with less, but I still miss my "bigger" saw from time-to-time. and selling the little top-handle was one of the dumbests thing I ever did.

 

[Mac88]

As we get older, ain't it funny how the definition of "toy" changes

Probably, for some. The Sportster and the Lyman are gone. That was the last of my toys. The stuff I have left is all related to "work". ;o)

 

[stihl023/5]

Probably, for some. The Sportster and the Lyman are gone. That was the last of my toys. The stuff I have left is all related to "work". ;o)

I still have some of the toys but have thought of getting rid of some. More toys = more maint time!

 

[Fedaburger]

With a small efficient saw and efficient cutting methods a man can get three maybe four good truck loads of firewood. It is awesome to throw a log in the burner and give a finger to the south toward the smoke stacks. With the light bills these days I love the sight of my wood burner in the corner.
Last winter my friend told me he had to buy $600 worth of fuel oil to last a little over a month, I felt bad for him and it made me appreciate my toys and my wife's frowns when I'm tinkering with my toys.
It is worth the hard work and the saws are a purk of the chore.

 

[Chris-PA]

Yes, it's partly a lifestyle choice. I love to do things for myself, I love getting outside and doing physical labor. And it's not all just grunt work, there is skill involved too in the use and maintenance of the tools. So I improve my mental and physical health while providing a direct benefit - where's the downside?

It's partly a method of saving money - substituting my labor for energy I'd have to pay for. Looking ahead, that fossil fuel energy will be getting much more expensive, and eventually there will be shortages. If you wait until the last minute to try to get set up heating with wood, it will be very hard to do and of course by then tools and equipment will be hard to come by and expensive, and you won't have time to acquire the skills.

For me, there is also a large environmental component. By burning wood I release carbon, but that carbon was stored in the last couple of decades and has little net impact compared to releasing carbon that has been stored for millions of years. I'm not really worried about the other compounds that are released, as that has been part of our environment all along, compared to what is pumped out when burning coal and oil, and the massive amount of radioactive material we've spread all over the planet in the last couple of decades. The few gallons of gas and oil used in my saws and tractor defers a huge amount of fossil fuel use.

As for saws, I agree more than two is an extravagance - maybe even more than one, but that does not make them toys. I have 6 presently and they're all still effective tools, and all the extras were either free or very cheap. I think a man can be forgiven for taking an interest in the tools that allow him to provide for the needs of his family, as long as it doesn't become a burden. It's cheap insurance.