Road Rage and chainsaws

[avalancher]

Yesterday I went cutting with a guy that I know, I generally cut by myself but my buddy had run into more than he could handle, and offered a 50/50 split of the wood, namely I would take what ever I could haul if I would knock the trees down.Seemed like a pretty good deal.
Yesterday it poured rain, I avoid cutting in the rain, but what the heck.
On the way home, we noticed this old man keeping pace with us on the highway, he appeared to keep peering in the bed of my buddies truck where he had his saws,I figured he was admiring all the white oak piled up in the bed of the trailer,but couldnt tell for sure seeing as how I was 20 yards behind him in my truck.
We pulled off of the highway to stop for fuel and some much needed grub.After fueling up, we went into the store to pay and get something to eat.I happened to glance out at the trucks and there was the old man leaning over my buddies truck bed.I nudged my friend and pointed and he was out the door like his tail was on fire.Just as he got to the truck the old man was lifting his 044 out of the truck.Realizing some carp was about to happen, I ditched my stuff at the counter and hauled butt for the parking lot.

I have known my buddy for years,but his next action caught me by surprise.he jerked the saw out of the guys hands, put a head lock on em, and took him to the ground.My buddy has always been a calm and level headed guy, and I got to him just as his right fist was cocking back.I got ahold of him, and all three of us ended up on the ground.
After peeling the two apart, the old man rather shakily said he was just admiring that brand new saw with that long bar, and just wanted to look.After seperating the two and making my buddy get in the truck, I talked to the old guy, and I really believe he had no intentions of stealing anything.His truck was on the other side of the parking lot, he would have had a rough time in hauling that saw to the truck and making a get away with all the people there.I explained that saws are not just tools, but become very personal to those who use them a lot, and touching them without permission is much like asking to borrow a guys wife.he seemed truly puzzled.

After the old guy left, we talked it over.Chad(my buddy)assured me that if I hadnt stepped in he would have beaten the old guy half to death, and was convinced he had stopped a robbery in progress.To tell the truth, I couldnt blame him, I feel the same way about my stuff as well,esecially my saws.

Anyone else here feel the same way as Chad?I really dont know what I would have done if it had been my saw,but in all honesty, I tend to think I would have reacted the same way.Better to assume a theft in progress, or take a more calm route?

 

[Henry G.]

I would have reacted the same way if ANYONE reached into the bed of my truck and took my saw out. You dont touch other peoples stuff without permission. It wasnt like he was petting a dog. The fact that the guy was practically stalking you guys is even creepier. You know how the world is full of young men who do bad things? Well guess what they get older just like us, prison is full of old men and repeat offenders. I should know I put hundreds and hundreds of them there. How suspicious would it look to see an old man calmly walk across a parking lot with a chain saw and put it in his truck? Not at all. Thats how stuff gets legs.
Grandpa lookin dudes steal, molest and do bad things too. And some of them rely on their looks to help fool ya. If grandpa was telling the truth then he still got what he deserved for being stoopid and not respectful of other peoples stuff.

 

[cuttinstuff]

Every such situation is different and hard to judge by a post here. It would depend on how the person was acting. Did he reach in the truck and SNATCH the saw? Or did he just pick the saw up? How old was the man and how was his physical condition? You stated he was parked a good distance away, that is a good indicator he meant no harm.
I do not believe I would have reacted the way your buddy did, HOWEVER no one should grab something out of a persons truck without asking first, period.

 

[Bushman_269]

Anyone who removes stuff from someone's truck without asking permission deserves an ass whipping no matter what their ultimate intention was. I wonder how many saws the old coot "found" that way? My saws stay in the cab of the truck when I am not in it.

 

[danrclem]

I probably would have stayed in the shadows long enough to see if he tried to take the saw. You can't judge a thief by his cover.

Why does a person leave a chainsaw in the back of a truck without somebody there to guard it? There is no way I would leave one of my saws and then go shop or whatever. It is just inviting a thief to take it.

 

[Henry G.]

Oh c'mon dont start blaming the VICTIM here- he went inside the stop n rob within sight of the truck to get a soda fer christs sake wasnt like he valet parked it and went on a 2 day hike, how do you think he spotted the old fart taking his stuff?

 

[cjcocn]

Yesterday I went cutting with a guy that I know, I generally cut by myself but my buddy had run into more than he could handle, and offered a 50/50 split of the wood, namely I would take what ever I could haul if I would knock the trees down.Seemed like a pretty good deal.
Yesterday it poured rain, I avoid cutting in the rain, but what the heck.
On the way home, we noticed this old man keeping pace with us on the highway, he appeared to keep peering in the bed of my buddies truck where he had his saws,I figured he was admiring all the white oak piled up in the bed of the trailer,but couldnt tell for sure seeing as how I was 20 yards behind him in my truck.
We pulled off of the highway to stop for fuel and some much needed grub.After fueling up, we went into the store to pay and get something to eat.I happened to glance out at the trucks and there was the old man leaning over my buddies truck bed.I nudged my friend and pointed and he was out the door like his tail was on fire.Just as he got to the truck the old man was lifting his 044 out of the truck.Realizing some carp was about to happen, I ditched my stuff at the counter and hauled butt for the parking lot.

I have known my buddy for years,but his next action caught me by surprise.he jerked the saw out of the guys hands, put a head lock on em, and took him to the ground.My buddy has always been a calm and level headed guy, and I got to him just as his right fist was cocking back.I got ahold of him, and all three of us ended up on the ground.
After peeling the two apart, the old man rather shakily said he was just admiring that brand new saw with that long bar, and just wanted to look.After seperating the two and making my buddy get in the truck, I talked to the old guy, and I really believe he had no intentions of stealing anything.His truck was on the other side of the parking lot, he would have had a rough time in hauling that saw to the truck and making a get away with all the people there.I explained that saws are not just tools, but become very personal to those who use them a lot, and touching them without permission is much like asking to borrow a guys wife.he seemed truly puzzled.

After the old guy left, we talked it over.Chad(my buddy)assured me that if I hadnt stepped in he would have beaten the old guy half to death, and was convinced he had stopped a robbery in progress.To tell the truth, I couldnt blame him, I feel the same way about my stuff as well,esecially my saws.

Anyone else here feel the same way as Chad?I really dont know what I would have done if it had been my saw,but in all honesty, I tend to think I would have reacted the same way.Better to assume a theft in progress, or take a more calm route?

In the situation that you described, I am leaning towards "both" as my answer. Unless the old guy had some skills to even things up, it sounds like your buddy could have gotten him to tap and therefore could have afforded to approach the situation more calmly.

Henry G is correct in that the old guy could have been using his age as a cover, and that the other factors like parking a distance away were a part of that cover. cuttinstuff may also be correct to assume that the parking, etc, were indications of the old guy's innocence in regards to his intentions.

It is hard to know either way. If you had watched it play out the old guy could have just looked. If the same thing happened again the next old guy (same situation otherwise) could have snatched it.

Keep an eye on those saws and do not leave them unattended. That way you never have to find out the hard way which ones had bad intentions.

 

[mga]

you guys did right. every one knows early on in life that you don't touch another's stuff....especially in a parking lot. i think the old man was b/s-ing you. if he really wanted to look at that saw, since he was following you, why didn't he just pull up and ask when you got there?

regardless of age, i don't wouldn't trust anyone.

but, i do have a question.....how "old" was this guy? lol....i'm 58.

 

[Henry G.]

Ill cut to the chase mga, yes youre old! LMAO!

 

[cuttinstuff]

I know this is not the case but I have visions in my head of this guy in his 80's scooting across the parking lot on his walker with a big Stihl in tow.LOL

 

[slinger]

I don't mess with your stuff/ you don't mess with mine. Including FAMILY.

 

[treemandan]

my wife woke me up one chilly Sun morn, said" One of your friends is out taking firewood" Being still sleepy I was trying to think- 1. I don't have any friends and 2. If I did they would still pay for wood.3. must set an example

Turned out it was the new neighbor poking round which I doubt he is gonna do EVER again.

Personally, with the way people's eyes light when they see a chainsaw its good to be on top of things. Poor old guy, I don't think I would have attacked an old guy though but always park in veiw of the windows at lunch.

 

[MJR]

Things like this can turn ugly fast. Don’t forget there are camera’s, over reacting can cost much more than the saw.

 

[Junior_M]

I think its just a judgement thing on how I would've went about it, I probably wouldnt have ran out there and practically tackled him, if he had some age on him you possibly could've hurt the guy and that woulda been a whole nother mess..

But the one thing, I wouldnt have left any saw in the bed of the truck...

 

[avalancher]

Every such situation is different and hard to judge by a post here. It would depend on how the person was acting. Did he reach in the truck and SNATCH the saw? Or did he just pick the saw up? How old was the man and how was his physical condition? You stated he was parked a good distance away, that is a good indicator he meant no harm.
I do not believe I would have reacted the way your buddy did, HOWEVER no one should grab something out of a persons truck without asking first, period.

in answer to your questions about the guy, he wasnt ancient,somewhere in his late 60's or early 70's. he wasnt frail either, was probably a handful when he was younger.

In regards to his actions, I really cant say what he was doing, snatching or just looking.After i hit the door, I was paying far more attention to Chad and what he was doing.

As i replay the scene in my mind, I can honestly tell you that I think the guy had just lifted the saw out of the bed and was looking.He still had his elbows on the tailgate when Chad got to him and the saw fell back into the bed when Chad took him to the ground.Chad had to cover a little over 75 feet from the door to the truck, and i think if he had the intention of making a getaway then the saw would have at least made it out of the bed.
After talking to him, he seemed truly puzzled about the reaction to him looking.As he explained,he had never seen a saw that big, or a bar that long
(28").He cut his own firewood, and he showed me with his hands how long his bar was(about this long.....)and mentioned that it was very heavy to hold, and wondered how on earth anyone could lift much less use a saw that big.Like I explained to him, it would be a good idea not to mess with someone that can use a big saw, you might get an ass whipping for your efforts.

His truck was parked some distance away, a good 100 ft or so,and right in front of the store,away from the pumps.He would have had to sprint right past the glass windows of the store to his truck,not a very good thief.

I may be wrong,but I think he meant no harm,but it really did raise the hair on the back of my head,even if it wasnt my saw.I had a hard time being civil during most of the conversation.

 

[avalancher]

you guys did right. every one knows early on in life that you don't touch another's stuff....especially in a parking lot. i think the old man was b/s-ing you. if he really wanted to look at that saw, since he was following you, why didn't he just pull up and ask when you got there?

regardless of age, i don't wouldn't trust anyone.

but, i do have a question.....how "old" was this guy? lol....i'm 58.

Sorry mga, I should have said "older than me" I guess.Im 42 going on 70, and more than once have heard my daughters friends ask her, "Is that old guy over there your dad?"
Matter of perspective I reckon.

 

[Patrick62]

My reaction

Probably would have been a bit different.

I would have sauntered over there and said something really crude:
"Just what the F&%# do you think you are doing?"

I generally don't start pounding on people...

The rest of the speech would have amounted to a rather loud and informative lecture on NOT messing with another mans stuff. I do keep a eye on my truck when I am parked where there could be sticky fingers.

Now, if I ever catch some lowlife packing my saw off I am likely to beat 2 pounds of stuffing out of them.

 

[KsWoodsMan]

If he could see the saws and was pacing you for very long he was waiting for one of them to bounce out the back. That didn't happen so he took some initiative and went the next step.

If you hadn't been watching his truck your buddy would have been without his saw.

I work with a rotten bastage that will follow pickups and service trucks for miles if it looks like something is going to fall off. He told me about his score once on 100' of welding lead. He had to follow the guy for 30 miles before it came all the way off. I lost all respect for him at that moment.

If he was on the up and up he had the time to walk up and approach your buddy about admiring it while you were getting fuel. He waited till you both had gone in to do his 'admiring'. My opinion : It would have served him right if you had let your bud land that first one.

You don't touch other peoples stuff.

Sounds like it worked out OK . He still has his saw and didn't end up jailed for excessive force while protecting his property. He has you to thank for that.

 

[mtfallsmikey]

I keep a bumper sticker on the dash of my '72 Cutlass ragtop that sez:

"Believe in life after death?...touch my car and find out"

 

[powerstroke73L]

in answer to your questions about the guy, he wasnt ancient,somewhere in his late 60's or early 70's. he wasnt frail either, was probably a handful when he was younger.

In regards to his actions, I really cant say what he was doing, snatching or just looking.After i hit the door, I was paying far more attention to Chad and what he was doing.

As i replay the scene in my mind, I can honestly tell you that I think the guy had just lifted the saw out of the bed and was looking.He still had his elbows on the tailgate when Chad got to him and the saw fell back into the bed when Chad took him to the ground.Chad had to cover a little over 75 feet from the door to the truck, and i think if he had the intention of making a getaway then the saw would have at least made it out of the bed.
After talking to him, he seemed truly puzzled about the reaction to him looking.As he explained,he had never seen a saw that big, or a bar that long
(28").He cut his own firewood, and he showed me with his hands how long his bar was(about this long.....)and mentioned that it was very heavy to hold, and wondered how on earth anyone could lift much less use a saw that big.Like I explained to him, it would be a good idea not to mess with someone that can use a big saw, you might get an ass whipping for your efforts.

His truck was parked some distance away, a good 100 ft or so,and right in front of the store,away from the pumps.He would have had to sprint right past the glass windows of the store to his truck,not a very good thief.

I may be wrong,but I think he meant no harm,but it really did raise the hair on the back of my head,even if it wasnt my saw.I had a hard time being civil during most of the conversation.

I would say that your friend is pretty damn lucky. No matter what the guy's intentions really were it's generally NOT a good idea to start wailing on a septuagenarian no matter how sturdy they might look. If the guy's ticker was about to go and the shock of your buddy pounding his brains in was enough to push it over the edge, I think its safe to say that he'd have been in for a long stay at the don't-drop-the-soap-hotel. Would he have done the same thing if a woman was picking up the saw? How about a 12 year old kid?

When I'm having lunch and saws are sitting in the truck I sit where I can keep an eye on things. I've often wondered if it's illegal to shoot a thief through a restaurant window and what a jury would think if I finished my lunch before going outside to see how the thief was doing.

I've often wondered why people talk about using lethal force over internet forums like it's something to be taken lightly. Personally I hope I'd never be put in a situation where I had to use lethal force-to protect life-not property. One other important point to remember is that God forbid you ARE ever forced into such a situation, you can bet that the lawyer the dead guy's family hires is going to find every last instance of you joking about shooting a guy for stealing your newspaper over the internet in order to portray you as some sort of sick freak who was simply jonesing to shoot someone. CYA people...