Ropes and Blocks and Such

[Kahuna427]

Hi Guys,
Thank you in advance for your advice. I put up about 4 cords of wood a year typically. This year I intend to attack some areas of our 10 acre property that has some leaners, old dead trees, and areas where we have groves of Quaking Aspen. I also have a couple of Quaking Aspen trees that are blown over from the root and hung up into other trees. I am thinking I need some proper equipment and technique to handle this. No climbing for me I just turned 60 and falling hurts more than it used to. Is there a kit of equipment you would recommend, (I have been on WesSpur looking around). Where should I look for a primer on proper techniques?

 

[TheJollyLogger]

If you scroll back through this forum, there are a lot of threads on this subject. Are you just looking for a basic kit to fell against the lean?

 

[Kahuna427]

If you scroll back through this forum, there are a lot of threads on this subject. Are you just looking for a basic kit to fell against the lean?

Yes, something like that. I am planning to drop a lot more of these troublesome trees this year. I think I need a method to get a rope up in a tree and use a block for better mechanical advantage. For leaners I mostly let them fall where they want. There are times I try to direct them a little. If the leaner is an Ash I wrap a chain around it. I am thinking I could also drag a half fallen tree hung up in other trees. I see a lot of people seem to recommend Samson Stable Braid 1/2". I am also thinking I need a throw line. I tried using parachute rope for that but it hung up really easily. Then there is the block. I have a couple of those but they are for the winch on my Jeep with 3/8 cable.

 

[calamari]

Peraonally, I use a 5' 3" very stiff spinning rod with 20# Spectra line and a flexible "Slinky" sinker to put a line over a limb orthrough a tree's crown if it's very high. Virtually snag proof, quick rewind w/o dealing with getting the line back into a throw bag. After the slinky is back in hand I unclip the snap from it and attach it to some parachute cord and pull that up and over. That's 440# test, very slick and tough to pull whatever you're going to actually use for the work. You can cast that slinky much farther and more accurately than you can throw a bag. You may already have a spinning rod and Spectra living in Maine.

 

[EchoRomeoCharlie]

Unless you're dealing in very large trees, the 1/2" stable braid will be great. If you want the extra security of knowing the rope can handle it with ease, get 5/8". I run both of those ropes and absolutely love them. Strong, easy to tie knots, and they hold up to the rigors of tree work well.

As for blocks, any arborist block that accepts 1/2" or greater will be fine...I have the cheapest 5/8" blocks they have and have been very happy with them. They're heavy and ugly, but they work.

Wesspur's rigging kits are great. That's where I started and have added on from there.

A throw line, throw bag, and a bunch of practice with it is essential to getting good mechanical advantage on the stem by getting the line much higher than you can throw the rigging line. Dedicated throwing line is very slick and runs across bark well, definitely much better than paracord for that use case.

Hint 1: Two is one, one is none. Have two sperate throw line setups. It's fairly likely that you get one stuck. Use the back up to get the tree down to get the first one back.
Hint 2: ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS take the throw bag OFF the line if you miss and are pulling the throwing line back out of the tree. You're asking to get it stuck otherwise. Use a slipped knot or a girth hitch it make this fast and easy.
Hint 3: In extreme cases you may need to use BOTH throw line setups to get the line in the crotch you want. YouTube actually has some really good videos on advanced throw line techniques. Browse around for those.

I don't know how knowledgeable you are with knots but a few really handy ones for rigging are the bowline, running bowline, bowline on a bight and the alpine butterfly.

 

[calamari]

Unless you're dealing in very large trees, the 1/2" stable braid will be great. If you want the extra security of knowing the rope can handle it with ease, get 5/8". I run both of those ropes and absolutely love them. Strong, easy to tie knots, and they hold up to the rigors of tree work well.

As for blocks, any arborist block that accepts 1/2" or greater will be fine...I have the cheapest 5/8" blocks they have and have been very happy with them. They're heavy and ugly, but they work.

Wesspur's rigging kits are great. That's where I started and have added on from there.

A throw line, throw bag, and a bunch of practice with it is essential to getting good mechanical advantage on the stem by getting the line much higher than you can throw the rigging line. Dedicated throwing line is very slick and runs across bark well, definitely much better than paracord for that use case.

Hint 1: Two is one, one is none. Have two sperate throw line setups. It's fairly likely that you get one stuck. Use the back up to get the tree down to get the first one back.
Hint 2: ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS take the throw bag OFF the line if you miss and are pulling the throwing line back out of the tree. You're asking to get it stuck otherwise. Use a slipped knot or a girth hitch it make this fast and easy.
Hint 3: In extreme cases you may need to use BOTH throw line setups to get the line in the crotch you want. YouTube actually has some really good videos on advanced throw line techniques. Browse around for those.

I don't know how knowledgeable you are with knots but a few really handy ones for rigging are the bowline, running bowline, bowline on a bight and the alpine butterfly.

I've never had a problem getting the parachute cord stuck but that could just be a function of the trees we have out here. It's got a tightly woven smooth sheath that will ride over little cracks in the bark that will catch the bag cord I've seen used. The throw bag cord I've seen tree removal guys use looked a lot like just regular nylon chalk line, twisted and not braided. Maybe they got the actual throw bag cord jammed and substituted something else.
Spend your money where it counts since you're not going into business, just managing a 10 acre wood lot.

 

[EchoRomeoCharlie]

I've never had a problem getting the parachute cord stuck but that could just be a function of the trees we have out here. It's got a tightly woven smooth sheath that will ride over little cracks in the bark that will catch the bag cord I've seen used. The throw bag cord I've seen tree removal guys use looked a lot like just regular nylon chalk line, twisted and not braided. Maybe they got the actual throw bag cord jammed and substituted something else.
Spend your money where it counts since you're not going into business, just managing a 10 acre wood lot.

Have you actually used throw line? Or just seen it? I've used both and have found the throw line MUCH better than the paracord in use.

Could be the tree types I guess, but that's definitely not the experience I had. Just the material the line is made of makes the throw line very slippery. That's not the case with any of the paracord I've come in contact with. Not to mention the small diameter makes it so there's almost no friction with the throw line. The throw ball comes straight to the ground without any input from me.

I attempted using paracord in the beginning because I already had a lot of it. It was a disaster trying to get it to run over most bark we have. Oak, ash, hickory, locust, etc. About the only thing it would run OK on is the smooth barked ornamental maples in town.

I went from that to Zing-It throw line and was amazed at how fast the bag would come down even on nasty locust bark. I rarely have to pluck or throw the zing-it line like I did almost every single throw with the paracord.

Throw line is pretty cheap...definitely wouldn't be the area I would try to save money on. Time saved alone for me pays for the throw line in 1 job. I think 180' of the stuff is $30. And for me and my experience, it's WELL worth the slight price difference.

 

[calamari]

I use the fising rod and Slinky to pull the parachute cord over the limbs. I've never used a throw bag with the cord that comes with them but I have watched others use it a number of times and many throws to get a usable set. I was underwhelmed other than it's easy to store in a climb bag. You don't have to use a fishing rod. Thinking about it, a broken golf club shaft would work just fine and be mostly indestructible. I'm mostly messing with oak so maybe I've just been lucky. I'll rub a candle on the parachute cord if it becomes an issue to make it slicker. Always use what works for you.

 

[Harmon]

Ya the price on that throw line is not a deal breaker, i mean if you are a guy that owns ten acres of woods. Also that parachute cord is strechy, which is ok if you are in a parachute... for a while i tried bailing twine and three chain links which was decidedly a waste of time. And of course time is time, and money is money. Some correlation has been suggested, but I aint buying it.

When cutting questionable trees I sure like a rope way up there before it gets weird, even if it doesn't look like I need one. Watch out for those with the root ball peeled out of the ground, have had them sit back up in their hole a few times after I took some weight off.

 

[calamari]

Ya the price on that throw line is not a deal breaker, i mean if you are a guy that owns ten acres of woods. Also that parachute cord is strechy, which is ok if you are in a parachute... for a while i tried bailing twine and three chain links which was decidedly a waste of time. And of course time is time, and money is money. Some correlation has been suggested, but I aint buying it.

When cutting questionable trees I sure like a rope way up there before it gets weird, even if it doesn't look like I need one. Watch out for those with the root ball peeled out of the ground, have had them sit back up in their hole a few times after I took some weight off.

First, I like your dog. I've got a yellow one that could be your dog's sister who loves to ride like that too. I like that your truck has roll up windows. For the younger set, that's a crank you turn to make them go up and down.
I haven't had an experience where the parachute cord is "stretchy." Maybe it's the brand or manufacturer. I'll check once the sun comes up.
So once you get your nylon throw line over what you want, what do you pull back over the limb with it? When I watched these guys, they'd pull their climbing rope up and over the limb but that's smaller diameter than what you'd use to pull on a tree. I've got a couple relatively short lengths of 1 1/4" rope I pull over the limb that I can attach a cable to and then run that through a snatch block to whatever I'm going to use to pull with. I doubt you'd wear out even a Harbor Freight block denuding 10 acres because you don't need to set one on every tree.
I have three tree saver short straps that I use for the block and as chokers at times in the right circumstance plus a variety of shackles. I use chain as the choker and to pull with. It's not as easy to get under the tree as a wire choker but it has more uses than the wire. Have both!
Looking back at the OP's original discussion, he tried using parachute cord as a throw line and had trouble. I can understand as it's too big for that I think unless you're just throwing it over a bare low limb.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

First, I like your dog. I've got a yellow one that could be your dog's sister who loves to ride like that too. I like that your truck has roll up windows. For the younger set, that's a crank you turn to make them go up and down.
I haven't had an experience where the parachute cord is "stretchy." Maybe it's the brand or manufacturer. I'll check once the sun comes up.
So once you get your nylon throw line over what you want, what do you pull back over the limb with it? When I watched these guys, they'd pull their climbing rope up and over the limb but that's smaller diameter than what you'd use to pull on a tree. I've got a couple relatively short lengths of 1 1/4" rope I pull over the limb that I can attach a cable to and then run that through a snatch block to whatever I'm going to use to pull with. I doubt you'd wear out even a Harbor Freight block denuding 10 acres because you don't need to set one on every tree.
I have three tree saver short straps that I use for the block and as chokers at times in the right circumstance plus a variety of shackles. I use chain as the choker and to pull with. It's not as easy to get under the tree as a wire choker but it has more uses than the wire. Have both!
Looking back at the OP's original discussion, he tried using parachute cord as a throw line and had trouble. I can understand as it's too big for that I think unless you're just throwing it over a bare low limb.

I think everyone who uses throwline started with parachute cord, tried a real throwline, and never looked back,lol. Parachute cord is larger, not as strong, not as slick, too limp, not as abrasion resistant, and jacketed. So, answering Cal first, we use our throwline to pull whatever is needed into the tree. My go to bull rope even in Houston was 3/4 husky , and throw line pulls it up and over with ease... I believe MBS on it was 25k. But even 1/2" stablebraid is in the 10k territory, which puts it a couple k stronger than 5/16 wire rope, I believe, and way stronger than 1/4.

To Kahuna, and this is from a guy who has dropped literally thousands of populus tremuloides in his career...
Throwball and zing it throwline
Masdaam powerpuller with 150' 3 strand
2 purple, 2 red loop runners
4 triple locking carabiner
3 dmm pinto pulleys

You buy that kit, send me pics, and there won't be a single aspen on your property that we can't get down quickly, efficiently, and safely, I promise you.

 

[fishdrivel]

Unless you're dealing in very large trees, the 1/2" stable braid will be great. If you want the extra security of knowing the rope can handle it with ease, get 5/8". I run both of those ropes and absolutely love them. Strong, easy to tie knots, and they hold up to the rigors of tree work well.

As for blocks, any arborist block that accepts 1/2" or greater will be fine...I have the cheapest 5/8" blocks they have and have been very happy with them. They're heavy and ugly, but they work.

Wesspur's rigging kits are great. That's where I started and have added on from there.

A throw line, throw bag, and a bunch of practice with it is essential to getting good mechanical advantage on the stem by getting the line much higher than you can throw the rigging line. Dedicated throwing line is very slick and runs across bark well, definitely much better than paracord for that use case.

Hint 1: Two is one, one is none. Have two sperate throw line setups. It's fairly likely that you get one stuck. Use the back up to get the tree down to get the first one back.
Hint 2: ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS take the throw bag OFF the line if you miss and are pulling the throwing line back out of the tree. You're asking to get it stuck otherwise. Use a slipped knot or a girth hitch it make this fast and easy.
Hint 3: In extreme cases you may need to use BOTH throw line setups to get the line in the crotch you want. YouTube actually has some really good videos on advanced throw line techniques. Browse around for those.

I don't know how knowledgeable you are with knots but a few really handy ones for rigging are the bowline, running bowline, bowline on a bight and the alpine butterfly.

I'm impressed! Very good post!

 

[fishdrivel]

So once you get your nylon throw line over what you want, what do you pull back over the limb with it? When I watched these guys, they'd pull their climbing rope up and over the limb but that's smaller diameter than what you'd use to pull on a tree. I've got a couple relatively short lengths of 1 1/4"

It takes (at least) 2 throws. One to go over limb, the other to get it around the trunk.
Should "never" pull a leaner from a limb.

I once took down a 300" redwood. It was more than 60 ft. to the 1st limb.
I spent more than 3 hours getting a safe climbing rope attachment.
Went home and came back in the morning. Took me 15 minutes? to climb the tree once I had a safe high-lead.
With regard to "these guys" There are a lot of "lucky climbers. Depend on luck and eventually it will run out.

Talk about some big wood!

 

[TheJollyLogger]

It takes (at least) 2 throws. One to go over limb, the other to get it around the trunk.
Should "never" pull a leaner from a limb.

I once took down a 300" redwood. It was more than 60 ft. to the 1st limb.
I spent more than 3 hours getting a safe climbing rope attachment.
Went home and came back in the morning. Took me 15 minutes? to climb the tree once I had a safe high-lead.
With regard to "these guys" There are a lot of "lucky climbers. Depend on luck and eventually it will run out.

Talk about some big wood!

Yeah, if it looked like they were using Mason line... guess what, they could have been using Mason line... plenty of hacks in this business

 

[calamari]

Last post on this throw line subject. I don't use parachute cord for a throwline. I use Spectra fishing line on a short stiff spinning rod with a "Slinky" sinker on it. I use that after it's over the limb or trunk to pull the parachute cord over and then that to pull the rope or cable or whatever over that will do the work. With that fishing rod I could have gotten a heavier Spectra 60# test line over whatever was 60' up in that redwood on the first cast. It's very accurate and has great distance by just adding longer and thus heavier slinkys.
Just curious though about the type of line used for throw line, the guys I watched had purpose made throw lines, cloth bag weight and a bag for the line and weight that had a manufacturer's name and logo on it. It didn't look like they put it together themselves. The line itself was yellow, and nylon. Are "real" throw lines braided or twist?
Here's the sinker.

 

[EchoRomeoCharlie]

Last post on this throw line subject. I don't use parachute cord for a throwline. I use Spectra fishing line on a short stiff spinning rod with a "Slinky" sinker on it. I use that after it's over the limb or trunk to pull the parachute cord over and then that to pull the rope or cable or whatever over that will do the work. With that fishing rod I could have gotten a heavier Spectra 60# test line over whatever was 60' up in that redwood on the first cast. It's very accurate and has great distance by just adding longer and thus heavier slinkys.
Just curious though about the type of line used for throw line, the guys I watched had purpose made throw lines, cloth bag weight and a bag for the line and weight that had a manufacturer's name and logo on it. It didn't look like they put it together themselves. The line itself was yellow, and nylon. Are "real" throw lines braided or twist?
Here's the sinker.



View attachment 969130

Whatever works for you is fine. I'm not saying you're wrong in your approach, just that my experience was not the same.

I can't speak for all throw lines, but Zing-It is braided dyneema with a slick coating Samson calls 'Samthane' or something like that.

 

[calamari]

Whatever works for you is fine. I'm not saying you're wrong in your approach, just that my experience was not the same.

I can't speak for all throw lines, but Zing-It is braided dyneema with a slick coating Samson calls 'Samthane' or something like that.

Dyneema is very close to Spectra. Very strong for it's diameter and not cheap. I'm with you about what works. Lots of ways to do things.

 

[EchoRomeoCharlie]

Dyneema is very close to Spectra. Very strong for it's diameter and not cheap. I'm with you about what works. Lots of ways to do things.

My father in law uses twisted 1/4" nylon rope from the hardware store with an old steel dirtbike peg tied on to it lol

Even after using my throw line system, that he admitted was a better solution, he sticks with what he has. He doesn't do nearly the amount of trees that I do though, so it works for him. Hopefully that steel peg never comes around and whacks him...that's going to leave a mark.

 

[calamari]

My father in law uses twisted 1/4" nylon rope from the hardware store with an old steel dirtbike peg tied on to it lol

Even after using my throw line system, that he admitted was a better solution, he sticks with what he has. He doesn't do nearly the amount of trees that I do though, so it works for him. Hopefully that steel peg never comes around and whacks him...that's going to leave a mark.

I think I'm going to use my parachute cord with a 1/2" clevis...er...shackle on it for weight tomorrow on that oak. Just because I can.

 

[EchoRomeoCharlie]

I think I'm going to use my parachute cord with a 1/2" clevis...er...shackle on it for weight tomorrow on that oak. Just because I can.

lol careful or you'll end up with summer teeth.

Summer here, summer over there.