calamari
ArboristSite Operative
Thanks! You made me laugh out loud for the first time today!
Ropes and Blocks and Such
- Thread starter Kahuna427
- Start date
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Zing-it is well worth the small fee that you pay for it. It's not just very strong; a tiny, thin cord is stronger than two men can break while hanging from it. Furthermore, it is really slick, and seldom snags up in a tree. When attached to Zing-it, a 6oz weight is sufficient to pull down the throw-line in most cases. Furthermore, it is spectularly tough. I've been using the same 150' spool for at least 3 years.
Parachute cord will have far too much friction to use as the primary pull cord. By the time you mess around with setting fishing line to pull a parachute cord, then pull your rope up, stow all the equipment away for re-use... You've spent more time and money after a few tosses than just buying the good stuff.
Parachute cord will have far too much friction to use as the primary pull cord. By the time you mess around with setting fishing line to pull a parachute cord, then pull your rope up, stow all the equipment away for re-use... You've spent more time and money after a few tosses than just buying the good stuff.
lol careful or you'll end up with summer teeth.
Summer here, summer over there.
Oh yes! When pulling as hard as you possibly can on Zing-it, it won't ever allow a clevis or other metal object to come flying back dangerously at the operator. You see, it has almost no elongation, so it there isn't any stretch to allow a high speed projectile if it is suddenly released. It just doesn't throw stuff back at you when you are pulling on it.
calamari
ArboristSite Operative
I used the parachute cord with a 1/2" clevis and the slight stretch encountered in pulling a bull rope over the broken trunk 30' in the air was unnoticeable. Too many people use a purchased throw line and bag for me to say it isn't a good tool but it's a tool you don't walk out there with it and become proficient from the start. It's a skill foreign to most people while casting a fishing rod is a more common skill in the population and a tool lots of people already have.
Yes, there is one more step using a rod, parachute cord and then the rope but that assumes that a novice will be able to throw that bag over a limb with his first try. As I said I watched guys who do it for a living spending 15 -20 minutes throwing the bag where they wanted it. After every throw it required the line to be packed carefully back in the bag which they did before the next try instead of just winding it back on the reel.
Use what you're comfortable with. I only mentioned what I used because the OP was looking for a list of tools he'd need for his 10 acres and I gave my suggestion.
If you're concerned about catching a shackle with your teeth I'd suggest you don't stand where you're in line with the cord and the shackle is close to the limb before you jerk on it with your eyes shut and a big grin on your face.
Yes, there is one more step using a rod, parachute cord and then the rope but that assumes that a novice will be able to throw that bag over a limb with his first try. As I said I watched guys who do it for a living spending 15 -20 minutes throwing the bag where they wanted it. After every throw it required the line to be packed carefully back in the bag which they did before the next try instead of just winding it back on the reel.
Use what you're comfortable with. I only mentioned what I used because the OP was looking for a list of tools he'd need for his 10 acres and I gave my suggestion.
If you're concerned about catching a shackle with your teeth I'd suggest you don't stand where you're in line with the cord and the shackle is close to the limb before you jerk on it with your eyes shut and a big grin on your face.
You are absolutely right, mastering a throw ball takes skill and practice, just like every other skill in this industry.
calamari
ArboristSite Operative
I sense the Op isn't interested in making it his life's work, just what is needed to work his 10 acres.
Just looking at your shares the last 2 weeks... you managed to pull a wire rope through clamps, which should never have been used in the first place... needed your buddy to come rescue you with his bull rope,... and still want to give advice? No offense, but you are a poster child for how not to do tree work.
calamari
ArboristSite Operative
TheJollyLogger,
What I do I'm comfortable with. I've never been hurt or hurt anyone else and the only equipment I've damaged other than chains from nails, is pulling those clamps off the wire. I've also pulled them into a block a couple times because I was working by myself and couldn't see them clearly. They work for my purposes just fine and are easily fixed at no cost. Wire ropes are used to do what I do everywhere without a problem.I'm not such a delicate flower that I'm bothered by talking about my failures. Very few people on this site are as open.
My friend didn't rescue me with his rope. His step father and my friend, who used to own the rope, died the day before we went up there. He wanted to take the rope as a connection to him and use it as a remembrance. He and I don't climb but his step dad did all his life and used that rope all the time. I could have done it with a wire rope just as easily but using it was a part of both of our mourning processes.
My comments on this thread are only about the throw bag and an alternative. You often ask what is learned by the experience. I've learned that there are some real dicks on this site.
What I do I'm comfortable with. I've never been hurt or hurt anyone else and the only equipment I've damaged other than chains from nails, is pulling those clamps off the wire. I've also pulled them into a block a couple times because I was working by myself and couldn't see them clearly. They work for my purposes just fine and are easily fixed at no cost. Wire ropes are used to do what I do everywhere without a problem.I'm not such a delicate flower that I'm bothered by talking about my failures. Very few people on this site are as open.
My friend didn't rescue me with his rope. His step father and my friend, who used to own the rope, died the day before we went up there. He wanted to take the rope as a connection to him and use it as a remembrance. He and I don't climb but his step dad did all his life and used that rope all the time. I could have done it with a wire rope just as easily but using it was a part of both of our mourning processes.
My comments on this thread are only about the throw bag and an alternative. You often ask what is learned by the experience. I've learned that there are some real dicks on this site.
You are endorsing practices that just aren't safe.
calamari
ArboristSite Operative
To be clear, you're saying a wire rope with loops made up with cable clamps are unsafe for any form of pulling?
With a vehicle? Absolutely. Using a shackle or any other hard item as a throw weight to save 10 bucks on a proper throw weight? Not a good idea.
Kahuna427
New Member
I went right to WesSpur and bought a pretty nice Throwline Kit and 200' of the 1/2" Stable Braid. That was $270 but I am sure a good investment. I am sure I will supplement this with other stuff too. Like the fishing rod and wrist rocker ideas so may give those a try as well. Need to get down a couple of these knots you guys use too. Thanks guys for the advice.
You don't need sling shots or fishing poles.
With a bit of practice and proper technique anyone able bodied enough to do tree work should be able to hit a 60-80 foot crotch in a few attempts which, for pretty much every tree besides the redwoods on the west coast, that is plenty of purchase. Around me, most trees aren't even 80 feet tall. So pulling at 30-40 feet, which is VERY easy with a throw ball is plenty.
People like to make things more complicated than they need to be IMO. Good choice on the stable braid rope. Spend a few hours tying knots while you're watching TV or YouTube or whatever and you'll have them down. Rigging knots aren't complicated.
Stihl a grasshopper
ArboristSite Operative
This rope and 4 of those snatch blocks will set you back about $225. Add some 3/4” shackles and a few slings and you can move just about anything you should come across. Use one as a redirect to stay out of the line of fall, and line of fire. Remember to size your slings appropriately if you are going to potentially be using it as a 4:1 or 5:1 pull. I have a few 12k and 21k endless chokers, as well as a few made from 1.5” amsteel line with loops on both ends. The amsteel ones are my favorite, very lite as well as being rated for something stupid like 90k pounds if I recall correctly.
Attachments
calamari
ArboristSite Operative
...and yet you said,
I will still maintain that there are no downsides, and many upsides to attaching to the front of a truck or tractor.
Now, the person you suggested this to sounds like he's going to use a rope and not a cable but if nobody pulled cables with their truck there'd be a lot fewer people burning wood for heat.
I give up. You are the God among insects that you think you are.
Just swage or splice the ends
preventec47
ArboristSite Operative
I am about to embark on some clearing projects and am acquiring the equipment necessary.
It has been a way more than dozen years ( pre internet ) since I have taken down any trees but I am a bit embarrassed to say that I did pretty well with a bow and arrow the kind of arrow used in bow fishing with a fishing line tied to it. I do remember that it was highly essential that the bow not be pulled back all the way.
For my near term projects I am thinking of using a child's bow. During this discussion I have watched some youtube guys with throwbags and I am wondering if I cant just put the bag on the tip of my arrow before shooting up in the tree. I just cant justify spending $200 on a big sling shot for short term use. I really do like the idea of
a fishing pole and some big ole lead sinker etc. I have ordered and am waiting on my "more power puller". I am thinking of ordering the promaster 1/2" rope 300 feet in case I decide to get the MAASDAM rope puller. I am having a hard time finding hardware store type or industrial pulleys that will handle 1/2" rope and have pretty high load ratings. For short term projects much of the special aborist gear is too expensive.
It has been a way more than dozen years ( pre internet ) since I have taken down any trees but I am a bit embarrassed to say that I did pretty well with a bow and arrow the kind of arrow used in bow fishing with a fishing line tied to it. I do remember that it was highly essential that the bow not be pulled back all the way.
For my near term projects I am thinking of using a child's bow. During this discussion I have watched some youtube guys with throwbags and I am wondering if I cant just put the bag on the tip of my arrow before shooting up in the tree. I just cant justify spending $200 on a big sling shot for short term use. I really do like the idea of
a fishing pole and some big ole lead sinker etc. I have ordered and am waiting on my "more power puller". I am thinking of ordering the promaster 1/2" rope 300 feet in case I decide to get the MAASDAM rope puller. I am having a hard time finding hardware store type or industrial pulleys that will handle 1/2" rope and have pretty high load ratings. For short term projects much of the special aborist gear is too expensive.
I just don't understand why people insist on using some type of device to shoot the throw ball...its called a THROW ball for a reason. Unless you're in 200' trees you simply do not need a big shot, or fishing pole, or bow, or anything. Just throw the damn thing up there...cripes. its like people insist on making tasks harder than they are. Throwing a ball over a 60 foot limb is trivial after some practice. Especially for a pull line where you can base tie it...
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What I've used in commercial work (recently retired) and what I continue to use in the woods are: 1/2" Stable Braid rope (150' or 200'--altho the 200 is rarely needed and a lot to carry around and keep in good order).
For rigging blocks (pulleys to the newcomers) I have some heavy duty ones, but mainly I use CMI 5/8" stainless steel rigging blocks with a 4" sheave and 20,000 lb. max breaking strength--$95 each from Bailey's Logging Supply. Which might sound like a lot of $, but when it comes to equipment like this you do not want to scrimp--your life and your other equipment will depend on it. (The 5/8" block serves well with the 1/2" stable braid.) I like to have at least two blocks available when rigging trees in the woods.
Connect your bull line (rope) to your steel block(s) with steel carabiners. I just looked at one in my pickup and it's rated at 50KN. DO NOT try to get by with aluminum carabiners which are made to support only the weight of a climber.
There's a lot of cheap equipment out there that might look like enough to get you by, but pay attention to the strength rating and be sure it's quality stuff from reputable manufacturers.
A Maasdam one-ton come-along (I carry two) will pull most of the trees that you encounter, unless you get into large trees, and if you're here looking for advice you should probably stay away from the big ones.
Then learn your knots and hitches. A timber hitch is very simple to learn, and other than the bowline and girth hitch probably what you need most.
Oh yeah, plus one on the Zing-it throw-line. Quality stuff that will last years. I use 12 ounce shot bags (I shoot them with the big shot), but occasionally have used other weights if throwing by hand.
For rigging blocks (pulleys to the newcomers) I have some heavy duty ones, but mainly I use CMI 5/8" stainless steel rigging blocks with a 4" sheave and 20,000 lb. max breaking strength--$95 each from Bailey's Logging Supply. Which might sound like a lot of $, but when it comes to equipment like this you do not want to scrimp--your life and your other equipment will depend on it. (The 5/8" block serves well with the 1/2" stable braid.) I like to have at least two blocks available when rigging trees in the woods.
Connect your bull line (rope) to your steel block(s) with steel carabiners. I just looked at one in my pickup and it's rated at 50KN. DO NOT try to get by with aluminum carabiners which are made to support only the weight of a climber.
There's a lot of cheap equipment out there that might look like enough to get you by, but pay attention to the strength rating and be sure it's quality stuff from reputable manufacturers.
A Maasdam one-ton come-along (I carry two) will pull most of the trees that you encounter, unless you get into large trees, and if you're here looking for advice you should probably stay away from the big ones.
Then learn your knots and hitches. A timber hitch is very simple to learn, and other than the bowline and girth hitch probably what you need most.
Oh yeah, plus one on the Zing-it throw-line. Quality stuff that will last years. I use 12 ounce shot bags (I shoot them with the big shot), but occasionally have used other weights if throwing by hand.
preventec47
ArboristSite Operative
No need to apologize for your limited ability to understand. You see some folks cannot see the forrest for the trees. Perhaps your understanding will become enhanced if you focus on your use of the word "practice"
Here is how it works. A few attempts are made to determine the amount of "practice" that will likely be needed
and for some whose time is worth a few dollars an hour determine that it would be a lot cheaper to acquire
said cheat device. I dont understand why you feel the need to use a chain saw. Are you too lazy to use
your axe ? The devices you refer to are called tools. It is very rare to not be able to justify your tool use.
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