Seeking advice for pollarded eucalyptus

[outofmytree]

Well at least the good folk of Mildura can now see the Volkswagon dealership.

 

[treeseer]

Well at least the good folk of Mildura can now see the Volkswagon dealership.

And done often enough, you may get enough callusing to make it sustainable? I'm no euc man, but they are not that different from silver maples. there's More than one way to handle a topped tree.

"How would I go about reducing a stem that has nothing to cut back too other than to top it again?"

Matt, cutting to buds is not topping. It is heading, which may or may not be proper depending on the tree, read ANSI, Shigo, Gilman...

"What about in the case of all of the stems having poor attachments and leaning over the buildings? I can probably answer that myself...full removal. "

What if by removing the stem you create more decay in the main trunk and increase long-term hazard? Reduction may be safer than removal, and it conserves assets.

oomt, in your last pic, I see little stain going down. Not that rotted,just too heavy on the ends. The sprouts were not reduced, perhaps due in part to all this thou-shalt-not-leave-a-stub preaching, which has no Good Book to back it up, and far too many pulpits and minor deacons peddling lukewarm brimstone and calling it Revelation. :welcome:

 

[Ekka]

The sprouts were not reduced, perhaps due in part to all this thou-shalt-not-leave-a-stub preaching

Now what is the logic here?

That reducing the sprouts means leaving them as stubs too rather than cutting to target?

Not with the logic stream here.:monkey:

 

[jefflovstrom]

This has gone on a long time, those trees are crap and should be removed! It is a complex of units that house people and if no funds ( budget) allow it , cut it back to the old cuts and leave a big ugly stump in the ground and wait for a call in a couple of years to do the same old thing over.opcorn:
Jeff

 

[jomoco]

Now what is the logic here?

That reducing the sprouts means leaving them as stubs too rather than cutting to target?

Not with the logic stream here.:monkey:

The logic is that secondary growth is wealkly attached and must be reduced within a certain amount of time or else.

It is illogical to assume otherwise as the results are self evident in the pics.

Are you saying that a euc can be topped once at maturity, and then safely maintained without topping it again at some point?

I admit to being somewhat shocked, if you are indeed saying that Ekka.

jomoco

 

[jefflovstrom]

:monkey::monkey:
Maybe they worship eucs there. I don't get it! This is a rental property or HOA that is trying to use their budget as best they can- they should know that this should be included or they can pay later.opcorn:
Jeff

 

[MattB]

This has gone on a long time, those trees are crap and should be removed! It is a complex of units that house people and if no funds ( budget) allow it , cut it back to the old cuts and leave a big ugly stump in the ground and wait for a call in a couple of years to do the same old thing over.opcorn:
Jeff

Tomorrow I will take some time to climb and inspect the canopy and I have a feeling I will make the recommendation to for at least a few of the trees to do just that. But I don't think this thread has gone on long enough because I feel like I am still benefiting from other peoples experience and advice.

It is not such a simple issue. I know what the budget is for the project and pruning 44 redwood, 72 bull pine, about 50 fruit trees is a big task already. If I add in permits, removal and replacement of 32 eucs instead of just topping them again I go way over budget and I don't get the job. If I top them again I am compromising my integrity and perpetuating a hazardous situation.

Thank you everyone for your comments.

 

[Boa07]

Hello MattB,

From my perspective you have had some very good advice from a number of posters, you have got yourself Ed Gilmans book and if you very carefully read the chapter on restorative pruning damaged trees you will have some of the very best advice on the topic at hand.

My 2cents....Please don't top (cutting internodally) these trees again, for all the reasons that have been well presented to you thus far. If the owners really want to retain the trees then there certainly are well established pruning methods to try and manage the current epicormic regrowth.

Relative strengths within branch unions is a topic that is just slightly more complex than any blanket statement can convey. Epicormic regrowth can become the scaffold framework for a healthy stable tree canopy...now whether the trees in your pictures are such candidates (for want of a better word) would really only be possible to assess on site and critically during your climbing inspection.

Trees do get smashed by storms, they do get trashed by poor cutting...sometimes (I would argue often) those tree can be managed over a long period to grow a canopy that has some resemblance of what the undamaged canopy might have looked like.

More often than not a combination of misunderstanding tree biology and the desire to get the cheapest job by the tree owner leads to what I would consider to be a poor choice in management options.

One last point MattB, whilst it might seem that there is strong and adamant disagreement in the written opinions, I would strongly suggest that if you had us on site standing next you looking at and touching those trees you would have much more consensus.

Regards

Sean

 

[Gumnuts]

These extra pictures might help with an ID.

50 cents on Red Box

 

[treeseer]

If the owners really want to retain the trees then there certainly are well established pruning methods to try and manage the current epicormic regrowth.

Relative strengths within branch unions is a topic that is just slightly more complex than any blanket statement can convey. Epicormic regrowth can become the scaffold framework for a healthy stable tree canopy....those tree can be managed over a long period to grow a canopy that has some resemblance of what the undamaged canopy might have looked like.

More often than not a combination of misunderstanding tree biology ... leads to what I would consider to be a poor choice in management options. ...

:agree2:

Cutting back selectively to buds is target pruning, not topping. ANSI, Shigo, Gilman...We are not limited to either cutting back to the same place or cutting the tree down or losing our professional integrity. Retain some branches, reduce some, remove some. Lots of decisions, but the tree will indicate what to do if you study it with open eyes.

 

[Bermie]

I get to do a few topping renovations every year....SOP is to remove the regrowth that is obviously weak or badly attached, cut off any irredemable stubs and nasty stuff, remaining sprouts are reduced or directional pruned if there is sufficient branching, and some of the long skinny sprouts with no developed branches 1 - 2" thick, are cut back...to a node!
Leaving long whippy sprouts intact is asking for them to tear off in the next wind...
during the revisit in a year or two, those sprouts have either developed nice side shoots and can be further worked, or have died...the ones that die are small enough not to have caused a problem, can be cut off or snapped off and the wound usually closes over fairly quickly...
Poinciana, Casuarina, Albizzia, Persea, Tabebuia, Cocoloba...all species this is done on.

 

[Ekka]

The logic is that secondary growth is wealkly attached and must be reduced within a certain amount of time or else.

It is illogical to assume otherwise as the results are self evident in the pics.

Are you saying that a euc can be topped once at maturity, and then safely maintained without topping it again at some point?

I admit to being somewhat shocked, if you are indeed saying that Ekka.

jomoco

Never said that and not saying that, read my post in it's entirety again.

 

[jomoco]

Never said that and not saying that, read my post in it's entirety again.

Well that's a relief!

Yu know Ekka, I've often thought that radial ring cabling could be a valuable remedial means of partially restoring structural integrity to topped trees, particularly eucs.

I apologise for misunderstanding your post mate.

jomoco

 

[Ekka]

What one writes and what can really be achieved are two different things.

On trees like below a reduction is pretty much impossible if 50% were requested. As you can see there's little branching to reduce to. You have a chance out on the tips though.

I have also previously written about reduction pruning eucs where the branch you drop down to is as long and poorly tapered as the branch you are removing. Thinning is an option however most trees will regrow the volume cut in around 3 to 5 years.

If the attitude of the tree owner is, "well if it dies then I'll remove it, at least we get a chance with repruning" then a retopping back to pseudo pollard heads is on. It's fast and renders the tree immediately stable. Depending on growth rates they may repeat this every 2 years or so.

I have had local councils request coppiced stumps and stumps be left up to regenerate in low target areas where trees are deemed structurally unsound. Of course in that application it's a cut and forget where as in high target environments it has to be managed. The thing is if it's done at an accessable point the maintenance of a retopping (pseudo pollarding) is easier to maintian and in reach of home-owners and gardeners and EWP's and climbers are not required.

Take a close look at the picture below. Just think, remove 1/3 of the stems means more exposure to the remaining, reduce 1/3 of the stems means a lop job for those stems and leave 1/3 to cop the brunt nature. Hmmmm, I don't agree with that. Then weigh up the costs of cabling, thinning, slight reduction pruning on a regular basis with risk still there (risk higher than a retopping). If the attitude is, "we'll remove any that die" you have a viable management plan, some will disagree, some will rant and rave .... but ultimately it's the tree owners decision.

For the record we are discussing structurally defective trees, if you have a decent tree, hasn't been storm damaged or topped then don't go doing this sort of rubbish.

The other thing no-one has mentioned is using a growth retardant hormone to slow the trees down, there's more treatments than a chainsaw.

 

[treeslayer]

opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:

 

[treeseer]

I get to do a few topping renovations every year....SOP is to remove the regrowth that is obviously weak or badly attached, cut off any irredemable stubs and nasty stuff, remaining sprouts are reduced or directional pruned if there is sufficient branching, and some of the long skinny sprouts with no developed branches 1 - 2" thick, are cut back...to a node!
Leaving long whippy sprouts intact is asking for them to tear off in the next wind...
during the revisit in a year or two, those sprouts have either developed nice side shoots and can be further worked, or have died...the ones that die are small enough not to have caused a problem, can be cut off or snapped off and the wound usually closes over fairly quickly...
Poinciana, Casuarina, Albizzia, Persea, Tabebuia, Cocoloba...all species this is done on.

Bermie, that sounds a lot like Gilman's protocol; thanks for letting us know that it works on so many species.

Paclobutrazol does work on eucalypts, causing many more buds to form. More buds = more natural targets to prune to.

 

[outofmytree]

Despite tipping my hat to access line clearance I cannot support topping trees just because that is what was done previously. With all the alternatives posted just in this thread there is a solution to even those poor abused mongrels in Mildura. Which is not to say we don't have our own chainsaw victims over here either!


http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=james+street+south+guildford+WA&sll=-25.335448,135.745076&sspn=54.23735,78.837891&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=James+St,+Guildford+Western+Australia+6055&t=h&layer=c&cbll=-31.899289,115.966628&panoid=s8IadpsGIhlzpPi1yf_osw&cbp=13,317.69,,0,-17.77&ll=-31.89929,115.966503&spn=0,359.998797&z=20


Is is odd to me that dynamic cabling has such a low profile in Australia where it could, in the case of the trees pictured, have such a profound impact. Tragically if you want to see professional cabling done here you have to go to Kings Park Botanical Graden cos there is 3/5 of 5/8 of #### all done elsewhere.

 

[jomoco]

Despite tipping my hat to access line clearance I cannot support topping trees just because that is what was done previously. With all the alternatives posted just in this thread there is a solution to even those poor abused mongrels in Mildura. Which is not to say we don't have our own chainsaw victims over here either!


http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=james+street+south+guildford+WA&sll=-25.335448,135.745076&sspn=54.23735,78.837891&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=James+St,+Guildford+Western+Australia+6055&t=h&layer=c&cbll=-31.899289,115.966628&panoid=s8IadpsGIhlzpPi1yf_osw&cbp=13,317.69,,0,-17.77&ll=-31.89929,115.966503&spn=0,359.998797&z=20


Is is odd to me that dynamic cabling has such a low profile in Australia where it could, in the case of the trees pictured, have such a profound impact. Tragically if you want to see professional cabling done here you have to go to Kings Park Botanical Graden cos there is 3/5 of 5/8 of #### all done elsewhere.

Probably because dynamic cabling like COBRA sucks for any application, except perhaps heavily laden fruit trees.

jomoco

 

[Boa07]

Despite tipping my hat to access line clearance I cannot support topping trees just because that is what was done previously. With all the alternatives posted just in this thread there is a solution to even those poor abused mongrels in Mildura. Which is not to say we don't have our own chainsaw victims over here either!


Is is odd to me that dynamic cabling has such a low profile in Australia where it could, in the case of the trees pictured, have such a profound impact. Tragically if you want to see professional cabling done here you have to go to Kings Park Botanical Graden cos there is 3/5 of 5/8 of #### all done elsewhere.

I suspect one of the main reasons has a great deal to with how many who lay claim to being Arborists make their income from the operation of chainsaws and chippers, certainly all the LGA's I have any contact with have no PHC units but they have a great many tree crews, and some beautiful looking chippers.

In my universe dynamic cabling has a great many useful applications and is no more a universal panacea than any other mangement option, but I am sadly confident that the majority will continue to search for a universal fix rather than to have to use our brains to provide solutions to specific tree issues.

 

[treeseer]

...the majority will continue to search for a universal fix rather than to have to use our brains to provide solutions to specific tree issues.

Geez, that takes all the fun out of it!