Sharpening after hitting a rock.

[rogue60]

No, it makes no practical difference having different length teeth for firewood, set the depth gauge to each tooth with a progressive depth gauge tool.
A test video I did cutting Aussi hard wood -

Try cutting until the chains are dull. Would be interesting how long the chain with the setting of the cutters all over the place lasts being the longer cutters with more set are doing the most work cleaning up the narrower kerf left behind by the shorter cutters with less set.

 

[sb47]

Common sense tells me if one side is higher then the other that the high side would cut deeper then the other. It may still go strait but it will cut slower.

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

Try cutting until the chains are dull. Would be interesting how long the chain with the setting of the cutters all over the place lasts being the longer cutters with more set are doing the most work cleaning up the narrower kerf left behind by the shorter cutters with less set.

That would be interesting. I’d be curious to see too.

I suppose the question is how much difference set makes on a chain vs a fixed blade as any lateral play in chain is greater than the set between teeth of different lengths.

On a fixed blade that is ridged / doesn’t have movement then it’s quite clearly important, on chain for firewood cutting, I presume it’s less so? I respect your experience though and not saying you’re wrong, but just that I haven’t experienced it first hand yet.

We’re all constantly learning right!

I brought a 12” bar for my top handle, it would be perfect for this test haha.

 

[Bwildered]

the chain teeth biting into the timber actually get drawn away from the bar in a porposing like movement, then the depth gauge drives the tooth back down to the bar, that's why bar gets a bur on it from being hammered by the links, the chain motion means the length of the cutters relative to the others is irrelevant, everything depends on the depth gauge being at the correct downward angle in front of the cutting tooth, this is not opinion and has been tested by chain / saw manufacturers & millers, go to the sawmilling section for more detailed info on it.

 

[Philbert]

the chain teeth biting into the timber actually get drawn away from the bar in a porposing like movement, then the depth gauge drives the tooth back down to the bar, that's why bar gets a bur on it from being hammered by the links, the chain motion means the length of the cutters relative to the others is irrelevant, everything depends on the depth gauge being at the correct downward angle in front of the cutting tooth, this is not opinion and has been tested by chain / saw manufacturers & millers, go to the sawmilling section for more detailed info on it.

The ‘proposing’ motion does not address the variation in kerf width created by different length / width cutters. This is referred to as ‘set’ in conventional saw sharpening.

All chainsaw and saw chain manufacturers that I have seen (STIHL, Oregon, etc.) recommend filing / grinding cutters to the same length in their manuals.

Philbert

 

[rogue60]

Not trying to convince anyone of anything just pointing out one mostly over looked design feature of saw chain.
For the guys interested and may never of heard of set on saw chain.
Here's a pic looking down on a cutter I just got off the net couldn't be bothered going out the shed getting a pic of chain.
This is SET designed into saw chain by the manufacturers the more you file a cutter back the less set it has.

 

[Philbert]

Here's a pic looking down on a cutter I just got off the net

I have posted these a few times:

Philbert

 

[Marley5]

I'm very particular about chain sharpness so hitting a rock gets my goat.
If I unknowingly bare down on a rock The chain gets pitched because I meticulously hand file my chains and to time consuming to repair.
I light hit like you experienced is very fixable but yes, teeth need to be same on both sides.
You'll especially notice this in the big stuff....where the saw tries to make a uturn

 

[Philbert]

I think that there is an analogy to tire pressure: In an average car, you want all your tires to be at the same PSI. If one is off by a pound or 2, it is unlikely to be noticed, or to make a difference. If each tire is set at a significantly different PSI, you probably can still drive the car, but handling, mileage, wear, etc. will not be the same.

Philbert

 

[sb47]

People are using the wrong term when they say a chain saw cuts. The chainsaw does not cut anything. It is a series of planes all lined up in a row. Your not cutting, you are planing wood away. Each tooth planes away a little sliver of wood as it's dragged across the wood. It particularly apparent when you cut with the grain like when you noodle a round in half. You get long slivers of planed off wood that look curls of wood from a wood plane.

 

[president]

I hit a rock while cutting a stump lower to the ground. The thing is, I only dulled the teeth on one side of the chain, but I got them really good. If I sharpen the teeth that were damaged and get them usable again, do I need to take the same amount off the teeth on the other side? Or is it ok if one side of the chain has longer teeth than the other?

I grind a 30 degree angle down to 25 and that takes the curled, and bent over top corner
damage away. You can then run it back to 30 dgrs, next sharpening

 

[Bwildered]

People are using the wrong term when they say a chain saw cuts. The chainsaw does not cut anything. It is a series of planes all lined up in a row. Your not cutting, you are planing wood away. Each tooth planes away a little sliver of wood as it's dragged across the wood. It particularly apparent when you cut with the grain like when you noodle a round in half. You get long slivers of planed off wood that look curls of wood from a wood plane.

You are almost there, the cutting tooth scollops some timber away , in a ripping motion the scallops are longer because the timber is easier to cut so the cutting distance travelled is further untill the depth gauge forces the cutter back Down to the bar, all this is irregular, with some teeth not cutting anything in a pass which is different to your planing anology.

 

[Tobystihl]

The teeth need to be sharpened to an equal length each side, or the cut will be banana shaped.

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

Sounds like this all really needs to be tested, I’m happy to give it a go.

I can confirm in what I have experimented with that tooth length doesn’t affect cutting speed or vibration, and the cut is still perfectly straight, but not longevity.

I’m off to the shop to get some spare parts so will buy a couple of new chains. I’ll see if I can get clean hardwood to test on for consistency.


Write below exactly what you believe should occur I’ll test it on video.


Some I have have tested it but will do it again:

The aim is to dismiss the following:

Uneven teeth length=

1). More vibration
2). Cutting curves
3). longevity in time between sharpening
4). Cuts slower

What else to look for?

 

[rogue60]

I have posted these a few times:
View attachment 934289
Philbert

Here's a pic you might find interesting Philbert.
It's hand filed square .404 skip I was messing around with cutting some softwood Radiata Pine.
I've keeped all cutters close as humanly possible hand filing and look at the size of the chips some are holding together not splitting into left and right chips a mirror of the cutters working together.
No rhyme or reason just interesting.

 

[trains]

Rogue60 is on the money here.
He is correct when he says about the chain being more efficient if the chain has equal length cutters.
Talking about saw set is important and when your cutting large amounts such as he is in commercial settings, then yes, you get more with a correctly sharpened chain with equal length cutters.
having sharpened circular saw blades on firewood benches, I both respect and appreciate what he is saying, and he is correct in saying it.

Now in saying that, if I rock a chain side, or hit a few cutters with some wire, and damage a few, I am not going to take down the rest of the cutters on that chain to all equal length, I will put up with a few shorter ones, or a side of shorter ones, and gradually work to file them back over time to get them more equal, but I dont need, or choose not to have the efficiency that Rogue60 does, and I wish to make the chain life as long as possible by only shortening the cutters with the damage, not the entire chain.

So correctly setting the depth gauge / raker height to each tooth will enable me to continue to cut straight cuts and put firewood in the trailer, will it be slower over a day, yes, will it be less efficient, yes, is it ideal, no, but can I do it and cut straight. Yes.

If I had a stand of trees along a fence line to deal with, I would tackle the chain as per Rogue60's advice, and enjoy what it has to offer.

There is more than one way to peel a potato in Ireland.

So knowing that you can make an informed decision and decide what to do for your own situation.

 

[trains]

Sounds like this all really needs to be tested, I’m happy to give it a go.

I can confirm in what I have experimented with that tooth length doesn’t affect cutting speed or vibration, and the cut is still perfectly straight, but not longevity.

I’m off to the shop to get some spare parts so will buy a couple of new chains. I’ll see if I can get clean hardwood to test on for consistency.


Write below exactly what you believe should occur I’ll test it on video.


Some I have have tested it but will do it again:

The aim is to dismiss the following:

Uneven teeth length=

1). More vibration
2). Cutting curves
3). longevity in time between sharpening
4). Cuts slower

What else to look for?

Tom, you need a long stand of 20 + trees to drop and buck up, do 10 with one even set cutter chain, and the other set with uneven cutters, then get back to us.
Also your going to best use a decent bar chain combo, so the 25" and 36" would be good to use, and your going to enjoy several days straight using the 076.
Then get back to us with how the saw / chain performed, how much it wore you out for each.


Just a few cuts in a bit of log on the ground is not going to give the results.
see my other reply.

 

[rogue60]

Rogue60 is on the money here.
He is correct when he says about the chain being more efficient if the chain has equal length cutters.
Talking about saw set is important and when your cutting large amounts such as he is in commercial settings, then yes, you get more with a correctly sharpened chain with equal length cutters.
having sharpened circular saw blades on firewood benches, I both respect and appreciate what he is saying, and he is correct in saying it.

Now in saying that, if I rock a chain side, or hit a few cutters with some wire, and damage a few, I am not going to take down the rest of the cutters on that chain to all equal length, I will put up with a few shorter ones, or a side of shorter ones, and gradually work to file them back over time to get them more equal, but I dont need, or choose not to have the efficiency that Rogue60 does, and I wish to make the chain life as long as possible by only shortening the cutters with the damage, not the entire chain.

So correctly setting the depth gauge / raker height to each tooth will enable me to continue to cut straight cuts and put firewood in the trailer, will it be slower over a day, yes, will it be less efficient, yes, is it ideal, no, but can I do it and cut straight. Yes.

If I had a stand of trees along a fence line to deal with, I would tackle the chain as per Rogue60's advice, and enjoy what it has to offer.

There is more than one way to peel a potato in Ireland.

So knowing that you can make an informed decision and decide what to do for your own situation.

Exactly we are just sharing knowledge gained through our own experiences and learning off others and as you say there are many ways/needs and the end results expectations are different for everyone doing the same thing sharpening a chain it's not black and white as some make it out to be.
Some are missing the point and can't through stubbornness or ego gain any insight adding to there knowledge base on the matter. What's that saying a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing.
Nowhere have I said a chain with shorter cutters on one side or cutter lengths all over the place won't cut straight using the advice already given by guys in this thread.

 

[rogue60]

Rogue60 is on the money here.
He is correct when he says about the chain being more efficient if the chain has equal length cutters.
Talking about saw set is important and when your cutting large amounts such as he is in commercial settings, then yes, you get more with a correctly sharpened chain with equal length cutters.
having sharpened circular saw blades on firewood benches, I both respect and appreciate what he is saying, and he is correct in saying it.

Now in saying that, if I rock a chain side, or hit a few cutters with some wire, and damage a few, I am not going to take down the rest of the cutters on that chain to all equal length, I will put up with a few shorter ones, or a side of shorter ones, and gradually work to file them back over time to get them more equal, but I dont need, or choose not to have the efficiency that Rogue60 does, and I wish to make the chain life as long as possible by only shortening the cutters with the damage, not the entire chain.

So correctly setting the depth gauge / raker height to each tooth will enable me to continue to cut straight cuts and put firewood in the trailer, will it be slower over a day, yes, will it be less efficient, yes, is it ideal, no, but can I do it and cut straight. Yes.

If I had a stand of trees along a fence line to deal with, I would tackle the chain as per Rogue60's advice, and enjoy what it has to offer.

There is more than one way to peel a potato in Ireland.

So knowing that you can make an informed decision and decide what to do for your own situation.

On the damaged cutters thing..
Along with learning how to and be good at hand filing as much or more goes into leaning how to take care of ya chain.
You learn over the years exactly what the consequences and the amount of damage will occur cutting contaminated timber with the likes of sand/ dirt/gravel/burnt black charcoal/dry hard white ant ****/nicking a rock/mud.
I've been relatively lucky working in the timber industry timber being relatively clean but still has the potential to be chain wrecking if one gets laxed.
Firewood cutting that's a different ball game I've walked away from contaminated timber the juice isn't worth the squeeze for me again I'm in a situation I can be picky.
There is ways to minimise the damage that can be as simple as if you see dirt clean it off or chopping out mud in bark even checking there isn't a rock on the other side of a bucking cut you can't see in rocky ground, or being aware of were the bar tip is and not cutting 5inch into the dirt plowing lol.
And yes sometimes you have no choice and have to cut some nasty chain dulling contaminated timber just means you'll be doing a lot of filing to get though the day/weeks.

Even being careful **** happens nicking dirt is nothing chain will just need a basic touch up. But if I nick a rock and say 3-4 cutters are damaged I'll just give them the same rubs as the rest I won't try to get all the damage out in one go.
Yes you get feedback there is damaged cutters in the cut but the cutting performance is not effected to any great degree. Eventually that damage will file out no big deal.
Filing out the damaged cutters then filing all the perfectly good cutters back to match them is a waist of chain and time not something I do personally.

 

[rogue60]

I better add I don't use any guides not even for the rakers.
I keep my cutters the same length and go by feel/feedback as to what the rakers need with what I'm cutting.
The cutters being all the same length means what one raker needs apply to all rakers! see there is method to the madness lol