Shaver Improvement Forum.... one year later

[headleyj]

Yeah, that was version 0.1 It is best to use a very short 90* and allow it to flow out the top effectifly limiting the water surface area exposed to atmoshphere (which is what creates steam). I had an issue when my 90* was a bit too tall and the boiler leaned to the rear slightly, this allowed water to leak from my DHW cover (stupid design). I think I might just thread the pipe and add a black iron 90* to neaten things up a bit. If your DHW cover isn't sealed, pull it off and keep an eye on your water level after you add the 90* and are filling it.

Oh yeah, don't worry about the water in the 90* freezing, I had mine on in -15* weather with no freezing.

I also found a good pipe to use to extend the chimney without the 500lb single wall shaver adapter pipe. The inside (stainless pipe) of the Selkirk metalbestos 266036 double wall smoke pipe just fits over the factory chimney. Flaten out the crimps a bit, cut a small notch on the outer black pipe to allow for a large hose clamp, and slide it all the way down to your roof, or even the top of the water tank if you desire. You will now have a standard pipe size allowing for extension and cap options, it will be insulated (1/4 air gap rates for 6" to combustables). I used single wall pipe to extend my chimney last year and it worked for about two weeks until it clogged up because of not being insulated. I got my here: http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/(alslozy1x5lpdx55wmktsxit)/ProductDetails.aspx?SKU=45065&

I'm building a shed over my boiler and wood storage now, but I hope to have some time to add insulation before I fire up the boiler. Does anyone know if I can fit a piece of rigid foam below the water tank, but above the square tubing the bottom of the siding attaches to, or should I just shoot spray foam under the tank?

Good to know it won't freeze. Yes the DHW plate needs a redesign. Thanks for the advice. I ordered my Rayco controller today too.

Spray Foam - I wanted to spray foam the entire thing. Kits are $400. If I had confidence welds were not an issue, I wouldn't hesitate to spray foam it, but based on some things I've heard on this board, welds may be an issue. It's easier to pull batt/ board insulation out than scrape off foam IMO. I'll try batt/ foam board insulation this year and see how it goes.

My BIL's Hardy has board lining the outer walls with a little bit of batt in there. Same size house as mine, he fills his 2x a day regardless of weather adn keeps his house stat at 78°. I'm at 73-74 and 2-3x/ day....hopefully these fixes will bring me down to 2x/day.

Keep us updated on what you decide.

Again, thanks for the advice.

 

[headleyj]

....
I also found a good pipe to use to extend the chimney without the 500lb single wall shaver adapter pipe. The inside (stainless pipe) of the Selkirk metalbestos 266036 double wall smoke pipe just fits over the factory chimney. Flaten out the crimps a bit, cut a small notch on the outer black pipe to allow for a large hose clamp, and slide it all the way down to your roof, or even the top of the water tank if you desire. You will now have a standard pipe size allowing for extension and cap options, it will be insulated (1/4 air gap rates for 6" to combustables). I used single wall pipe to extend my chimney last year and it worked for about two weeks until it clogged up because of not being insulated. I got my here: http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/(alslozy1x5lpdx55wmktsxit)/ProductDetails.aspx?SKU=45065&
....

so does this pipe allow you to fore-go the silicone b/t the chimney and the roof metal?

 

[hypothesis]

fletcher0780,

I have my 290 raised 12" on blocks. I was able to fit the first of two layers of 2" foam board between the water jacket and square tubing. I cut out an oval notch in the foam board to accommodate the six legs. In order to do this though, I had to install each layer in two pieces, cut down the middle. Otherwise your foam board would run in between the legs and leave the outer edges of the water jacket exposed. I did two layers of foam board and staggered the seams. The second layer came pretty close to fitting flush with the square tubing.

 

[urhstry]

Can we get some pictures of the insulated exhaust pipe and the insulated bottoms? I've been reading so much as to how to do it and everyone's got a different way. It seems spray foam is not the way to go.

 

[fletcher0780]

so does this pipe allow you to fore-go the silicone b/t the chimney and the roof metal?

You'd still need the seal between the chimney and roof, but depending on how you install it (i.e. cutting the hole bigger and allow the new pipe to rest on the tank) you will be caulking against a much cooler surface. I have a shed over my boiler now, so I'm not concerned about how water tight it is, and now I don't have to look at the ugly thing.

 

[Windwalker7]

won't you get that creosote oozing down between the original pipe and the extension pipe?

 

[headleyj]

You'd still need the seal between the chimney and roof, but depending on how you install it (i.e. cutting the hole bigger and allow the new pipe to rest on the tank) you will be caulking against a much cooler surface. I have a shed over my boiler now, so I'm not concerned about how water tight it is, and now I don't have to look at the ugly thing.

understand, thanks

 

[fletcher0780]

won't you get that creosote oozing down between the original pipe and the extension pipe?

It's a ver tight fit, and insulated pipe, so I think the inside pipe temperature should be high enough to combat build-up, but this is only a guess since mine hasn't been fired up like this yet.

 

[ngzcaz]

Well...... I just got off the phone w/ Shaver furnace and they have nice music playing in the background. Their personnel are marginally better but are friendly. It just seems we in the north are just at a different pace than they are. I really don't think they are trying to screw anyone its just they got too big too fast and relied on old technology... IMHO anyway.

Anyway.. thought others might want to know Shaver ( probably thanks to the first Shaver forum ) changed their blower and added a solenoid. They also have different kinds of stats that are available. Apparently it no longer has the flap that you manually set. I'm getting a picture sent to me ( its not on line yet for viewing ) and I'll try to post it when its received. Cost : $ 125 for the draft blower and solenoid. Its also has more CFM than the original. The original with the lower CFM is still available if one wants it. I've always had plenty of draft but the flap was a pain. I liked one person who shared a picture of his homemade draft door. It looked like something from an oil burner pipe that flaps with the pressure of the air. When no air is needed, its closed off. When it needs air and the draft motor kicks on the door swings open. He made a housing from sheet metal, took the blower draft door off and attached this to the blower. I'd really like to know how he made out last year with it. No wiring, etc. just worked with air pressure.

And... I want to play with this relocated stat and settings before I make a definitive statement pro or con.

 

[trshmn]

Hi all, I put triple wall insulated pipe on mine down to the water jacket, cut the hole in roof bigger then resealed with silicone, where the triple wall sets against the water jacket I used 2 1/2 wraps of 1" rope gasket with silicone to hold it together, then sealed the triple wall to the water jacket, the reason for 2 1/2 wraps is because the triple wall pipe sets partially on top of the DHW cover and this will let it set strait, also the rope gasket helps hold back the heat from the shaver pipe at the very bottom of the triple wall, only will work if you remove the DHW coil and seal everything up for good, which I did, then built a side arm heat exchanger for DHW and installed on hot water tank, moved old pump for DHW out to wood burner and now going to use one pump for house and other for DHW and to heat the garage, I also did the other mods. and put r30 in sides and the roof and 2in. foamboard under it, I tried to post pics but it said the pic size was to big, could some one help with this so I can post pics??? I think seeing a pic along with descibing what you done is 10 times better. Thanks

 

[trshmn]

Sorry I forgot to mention the triple wall was a three foot piece and it fit flush from water jacket to top of shaver pipe then stuffed 3/8 rope insulation between the two, if there is any creosote it won't be able to run down between.

 

[ngzcaz]

I think insulating the chimney does several good things. It helps conserve the heat, reduces or eliminates condensation improves draft, and at least as important would reduce creosote by helping the stack stay hotter. The one time I had little draft and couldn't figure out what was going on was solved when I checked out a suggestion by one of our members to check for creosote in the pipe. Since I didn't add any pipe I didn't think of that. However upon checking I found the problem that was almost exactly where the pipe comes thru the roof. Creosote was the culprit. Since then I insulated the chimney and added a removable length of steel to the poker. I can now reach where the blockage was in the chimney w/out getting a ladder and hanging over the roof. This simple mod of insulating the chimney is probably overlooked by many.

The way you went about it was more time consuming than the average guy would undertake but the benefits might well be worth it. At least we should be insulating it up to the roof.

 

[david78]

. I liked one person who shared a picture of his homemade draft door. It looked like something from an oil burner pipe that flaps with the pressure of the air. When no air is needed, its closed off. When it needs air and the draft motor kicks on the door swings open. He made a housing from sheet metal, took the blower draft door off and attached this to the blower. I'd really like to know how he made out last year with it. No wiring, etc. just worked with air pressure.

My flapper worked great last winter. Reduced wood use and no more over temperature problems like I had with the stock setup. I think some kind of solenoid or self closing flapper is a must.

 

[ngzcaz]

I was hoping you were monitoring this. For the folks who are either new or didn't see it, would you post a pic or two again and explain how you went about it ? Its so common sense it hard to believe no one else thought of it. One could even put a small screen mesh or filter in front that might extend blower life.

 

[david78]

It's on page 18 of the original Shaver improvement thread.

 

[headleyj]

mine's not as simple but I've got a solenoid with a chain and a flapper, works just fine

 

[fletcher0780]

It's on page 18 of the original Shaver improvement thread.

 

[headleyj]

where's the flapper? Is it inside that "intake" and hinged in the center with a small weight like a bathroom van/vent combo?

 

[david78]

The flapper is just inside the PVC pipe. It pivots on a little groove in the bottom of the collar. You can see the brass weight sticking down at the bottom of the pipe.

 

[ngzcaz]

For some reason I thought it was made from a 3 or 4 inch or so metal pipe with a flapper assembly like you would find on an oil burner. But if plastic works.. all the better. However, I don't see the flapper either. On an oil burner the flapper assembly is like a collar that just goes on the end of a pipe that is cut into and joins the pipe coming out of the oil burner. I checked mine on the oil burner and it has to swing on an arm that goes thru the pipe from one end to the other. The assembly would only have to long enough to allow the full length of the flapper to be at 180 degree then go back to hanging straight up and down again. Maybe this is something different ?? What are we missing here ?

:monkey: