Shaver Improvement Forum.... one year later

[ngzcaz]

Duh... I see the weight. This is different from the one I have on the oil burner. The weight on mine is inside the flapper with it being adjustable as far as how much pressure it takes to open or close it. The flapper would be seen easily from a photo on mine. Thats why it was confusing.. Basically yours works the same way, just a different configuration. I noticed the space around mine on the oil burner and its maybe 1/8 inch space all the way around to allow the flapper to swing. More than enough on my 165 to keep a little smoke coming out the chimney.

Now for those interested are these still available and where they would get them ? I'd sure like to know if others followed your lead and what results they had..

 

[headleyj]

The flapper is just inside the PVC pipe. It pivots on a little groove in the bottom of the collar. You can see the brass weight sticking down at the bottom of the pipe.

so the flapper axis of rotation is vertical?? If so how does it close?

If it's horizontal with a small weight on one end I can see how that would work....dont understand this one if flapper axis is vertical. Unless it's spring loaded..that'd be a light spring.

 

[ngzcaz]

Adams manufacturing has a 4 ,5, or 6 inch Draft o Matic barometric damper gizmo. There's a good picture on the website, $ 28.99. Just type it in on a general search.

:biggrinbounce2:

 

[david78]

Here are some not so great pictures of the flapper. It consists of a round collar with kind of a lip sticking out at the bottom that the flap rests/pivots on. The weight threads on the small bolt and can be threaded in toward the flap or out away from it to regulate how much draft it takes to open it. It was designed to replace the spin draft control on a stove. They're not making them anymore and I haven't been able to locate anything similar on the web. Shouldn't be too hard to make for someone who does metal work. Hope this helps.

 

[Windwalker7]

Adams manufacturing has a 4 ,5, or 6 inch Draft o Matic barometric damper gizmo. There's a good picture on the website, $ 28.99. Just type it in on a general search.

:biggrinbounce2:

Got a link?

 

[Windwalker7]

I found this

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs...ype=product&id=100396928&AID=10368321&cj=true

 

[ngzcaz]

If you have Google.. type in : draft o stat The first 2 or 3 hits will take you there. The one at Depot looks to be a little more assembly required oriented. If the flapper isnt exactly in the center it wont open and close correctly. The draft of stat should much easier to install. I'm going to check local plumbing dealers today to see if any are in stock or they can get them.

 

[ngzcaz]

David, how did you adjust your setup ? Did you just make sure the flapper was closed when the draft motor was off ? Any precise setting or just " seat of the pants " ? BTW, a 3 inch damper set up would still be slighter larger than the opening in the draft blower. I have 4 inches till I hit a pex pipe that runs to the house so I'm opting for the 3 inch if its available and will clear in my application.

 

[Windwalker7]

Found it!

http://www.hvacsolutionsdirect.com/product.php?productid=17&cat=86&page=



I really like this idea but I have some concerns.

I wonder if natural draft or air currents wiil be enough to open this thing up when we don't want it open.

Also, if the fan kicks on, I would think that the full force of air blowing in may cause too much heat to blow right out the chimney instead of heating the water as quick. Might cause extra wood consumption. Not sure just concerned.

I really like the idea of not needing to hook up a selenoid

 

[ngzcaz]

Like you, I am a little concerned that the air flow ( would be the same as if you opened the slide all the way until the stat turns off the blower ) would be way more than its currently set. On the other hand, will the resulting fire be hotter than a restricted air flow and consequently turn the stat off quicker ? And with the damper closing most of the air supply, will that offset the bit more wood it would take ? I've never had my slide open much more than 1/3 even in the middle of winter. Most of the time its right around 1/4. Right now its a tad less than 1/4 when I did the test burn a few days ago.

RE : natural draft currents etc.. if the damper is properly set and the rear door is closed I don't see how that would happen. If the rear door was open and subject to the wind then that could easily happen. Thats why I was curious how David set his up. In an oil burner setup the settings are very precise. I would think in this setup one could err by having it a bit harder to open. The best thing about this is its low cost and if it doesn't work, its extremely easy to remove. David didn't even take his slide off, he just slide it down to the all the way open position.

Bottom line is this sounds too good not to try..

 

[trshmn]

A few pics of my mods

 

[ngzcaz]

Nice job. Snow should have no problem staying on your roof..

 

[trshmn]

more pics

 

[trshmn]

more pics

 

[hypothesis]

I wonder how a 4" diameter dryer vent draft blocker would work. It seems to operate on the same principal as a Draft o Matic barometric damper gizmo. It's made of plastic and cheap enough to experiment with at $4. If it doesn't work, then I can use it in the house.

 

[hypothesis]

Like trshmn, I also cut my roof and slid an insulated 6" chimney pipe over the factory single wall chimney pipe. I used a 6 x 36" double wall insulated chimney. The double wall is not a wide as the triple wall therefore I didn't have any interference with the access plate for the water jacket. I use the factory domestic hot water coil so I need to be able to access the cover (once I cut through the silicone).

At the top of the chimney assembly, there's about 2" of the factory single wall pipe sticking out of the top of the double wall chimney. There's still enough room at the top to attach one of the "twist lock" connection chimney caps if one wanted. There is some space to be taken up between the two and I suppose the rope gasket would work, but I didn't have any on hand, but I have plenty of extra tubes of silicone laying around from working on this furnace. I just filled in the gap with a liberal amount of silicone.

Oh yea, and I did try that 500 lb. single wall pipe adapter that I ordered from Shaver, but it didn't work out. :censored:

 

[david78]

I haven't had any problems with natural draft pulling the flapper open. When the blower comes on, it doesn't pull the flapper down all the way to a 90 degree angle; more like a 30-45 degree angle. So it's not equivalent to having the stock flap open all the way. I'm guessing my setup would be like having the stock flap open 1/3 of the way or so. I could adjust the weight so it doesn't open as far, but it seemed to work pretty well last year so I haven't fooled with it.
On another note, I've had fiberglass insulation in the firebox door for about 10 months now and it has worked well but was starting to degrade and fall out. So I ordered some Kaowool, a ceramic mat good for 2300 degrees. It's denser than the fiberglass and should insulate better. I got 2 square feet from anvilfire.com which cost $24 shipped. The 1" thick fit just right.

 

[trshmn]

Like trshmn, I also cut my roof and slid an insulated 6" chimney pipe over the factory single wall chimney pipe. I used a 6 x 36" double wall insulated chimney. The double wall is not a wide as the triple wall therefore I didn't have any interference with the access plate for the water jacket. I use the factory domestic hot water coil so I need to be able to access the cover (once I cut through the silicone).

At the top of the chimney assembly, there's about 2" of the factory single wall pipe sticking out of the top of the double wall chimney. There's still enough room at the top to attach one of the "twist lock" connection chimney caps if one wanted. There is some space to be taken up between the two and I suppose the rope gasket would work, but I didn't have any on hand, but I have plenty of extra tubes of silicone laying around from working on this furnace. I just filled in the gap with a liberal amount of silicone.

Oh yea, and I did try that 500 lb. single wall pipe adapter that I ordered from Shaver, but it didn't work out. :censored:

I had some rope gasket laying around so I used it, hope your silicone works because it would be cheaper than buying the rope gasket, but on the original setup the factory pipe got so hot that the silicone pulled away from the pipe so I was worried about using it, let us know how it works out, also does anyone else after the end of the burning season have the buildup of rock hard creosote on the sides and back of the firebox, I had to use a air chisel to break it up, but now it's all cleaned out filled with water and ready to fire soon, this will be third year but first year was just 2 months of burning.

 

[ngzcaz]

I had some rope gasket laying around so I used it, hope your silicone works because it would be cheaper than buying the rope gasket, but on the original setup the factory pipe got so hot that the silicone pulled away from the pipe so I was worried about using it, let us know how it works out, also does anyone else after the end of the burning season have the buildup of rock hard creosote on the sides and back of the firebox, I had to use a air chisel to break it up, but now it's all cleaned out filled with water and ready to fire soon, this will be third year but first year was just 2 months of burning.

Yeah, there's some creosote, more like a glaze at most spots. I was able to get the big spots with the poker. The rest will stay on to be burned off at the next hot fire. Few will attempt to remove all that junk. The CB'ers aren't doing it ( the ones I know anyway ) they throw some of that powder stuff that CB sells and let it go at that. After a couple of days of burning it reappears anyway. Supposedly that stuff isn't rock salt. I looked at the label and couldnt find out what it is. I thought it was required to list ingredients in case of accidental ingestion etc..

:monkey:

 

[John D]

I did some insulating over the weekend.After being torn on whether or not to spray foam insulate it,I decided not too.I just do not trust the water jacket or enclosure 100% not to leak,and cause major problems down the road....
I never removed the rear panel,as it would involve a lot of work,and replumbing everything.I think the gains to be had there are next to none,as ive laid r19 batts over the entire area anyway.
I think the areas that are insulated are not in bad shape,its just that it was thrown on,and no attention was paid at the corners,and top to ensure 100% coverage.I ended up insulating the entire tope edges,as there insulation left a section of bare metal exposed,about 2-3" high the entire length of thr OWB,and on both sides.This had to be some of the reason the inside was do hot this winter,as the heat rose right into the roof area.I also insulated the section behind the OWB that houses the circulator,tstat, and door.I did this because on cold nights it would sweat inside there,due to the cold panels,I dont think it will now.Inside the roof,I fixed the sloppy mess shaver just threw it up there like a blanket,it wasnt even covering the whole top,I fied that and added almost a foot of insulation, 2 rows of unfaced r19 along the entire top.Im going to pull the unit up next week,pour a pad,and reinsulate under it better as i missed the corners a little.I also used 3 cans odf expanding foam to seal the rear area,and solarguard to stop air infiltration between the rear of the unit and the r19 i already installed.This should help hold the heat that area.Overall I spent under $100.00 and i hope it helps,it has too,as i covered over 2 sq ft of totally bare metal with 3-6" of insulation.I have a few pics ill load here.

The first pic is the factory setup after removing the side.
second pic you can clearly see the bare tank end that was not insualted at all.The op insulation didint come down the sides,and the sides was high enough.
3rd pic the entire top section is bare,once you pull down the barrier its clear to see how easy it air can get in there,and pull the heat right out of the storage tank.