Splitter build questions- hydraulics

[Hellbent]

Kinda inhereted a three point splitter that has shot craps and would get more use out of it if it were a "regular" configuration. Ex. Helping buddies, old farmers, etc.

So here is what I have to work with:

13 hp B&S industrial/commercial engine
36" 4" sleeve 2" bore cylinder that is in rough but useable shape after I drop a new seals kit in it.

Here is what I would like to do:

Run cylinder with respectable cycle time
Hydraulic log lift
Hydraulic adjustable wedge

What are my options and where do I go frome here?
What GPM pump would accomplish all that without bogging down the engine?
Is this worth doing from a cost benefit standpoint?
What type of valve should I be searching for?
I'm a poor but very handy shop teacher with more time than money - where could i go looking to scrounge needed stuff?

Thanks for all the help! You all kick aacceee! Hellbent

 

[Jakers]

i would say that motor (in proper running condition) could power a 22 GPM two stage no problem. its all kind of a toss up though. to run 22 gpm to its full potential it gets spendy. what size cylinder are you going to use is the first question. a 4 - 4.5" bore x 24" stroke will split most anything and can be run fairly fast with a 16 gpm pump @ 3k psi and standard half inch lines. if you want to run a bigger more manly cyl like a 5 or 6 then your price for everything goes up unless you scrafice a little speed and add heat. id say perfect reasonable price set up would be 4.5 x 24" cyl, NO ELBOWS or 90* fittings on half inch lines, 16 gpm pump, and a prince auto cycle valve. the rest is all just fab work. if you decide to run a 22 gpm pump, use a big hydro tank or get a cooler. i run a 21 gpm pto pump on mine and half inch lines for the splitting cyl with a 20 gal tank and it does get hot in the summer

go to junk yards and scrounge what you need. building demo sites for a possible beam if the one you have isnt good enough. stop by local mechanic shops and farm auction sales for valves if you dont want to buy new. dont skimp on fittings, NO GALVANIZED PIPE ANYWHERE!!!!!!!!! if you use cheap pipe on the return side, use black pipe. check out farm auctions for the smaller cylinders for the lift and 4-way too. you could go fixed 4-way or slip on to save money too. if you are a good welder and metal worker theres no reason you cant build a nice unit for cheap. one big suggestion if its going to be a fixed wedge, put the wedge on the opposite end of the hitch. that way as you split it can just pile up. when you get too much, drive it ahead

and yes, its worth building your own. make it the way you want it instead of the way they sell it...

 

[Jakers]

scroll through here for lotsa good ideas
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/wood-splitter-picture-thread.191147/

Edit: i guess most of the pics got lost in the hacking problems... ill see if i can load mine back in there. Steve NW WI has a similar set up to mine but his faces the other way like i described

 

[dave_dj1]

You can look at my splitter build in my sig and here is a good example of what you want.

 

[Hellbent]

You can look at my splitter build in my sig and here is a good example of what you want.

That is hilarious! Yours is the exact one I've wanted to duplicate! Literally looked at hundreds of youtube vids and came accross yours and said "that's it!"

 

[dave_dj1]

That's not my splitter, I was going to build one like it but had no way of making the sliding wedge. At least no way at my disposal. I have a slip on 4 way and I like it.
dave

 

[Hellbent]

That's not my splitter, I was going to build one like it but had no way of making the sliding wedge. At least no way at my disposal. I have a slip on 4 way and I like it.
dave

Yeah, sorry about that! Checked out your build thread and man you did a great job! I imagine with my materials I'll end up copying your setup pretty closely.

 

[Hellbent]

one big suggestion if its going to be a fixed wedge, put the wedge on the opposite end of the hitch. that way as you split it can just pile up. when you get too much, drive it ahead

and yes, its worth building your own. make it the way you want it instead of the way they sell it...

Both excellent points that I really hadn't thought of!

I have a 4" bore 2" rod 36" stroke cylinder that came off of a loader for a tractor that i plan on using just because it is what i already have.

So for sure i should be looking at a 22gpm pump and that would handle everything i'm looking to do?

As far as the valve goes what would i need to run all three functions with a two stage pump? Could one of the valves with three levers like guys use on tractor loaders work?

 

[Jakers]

for a 4 inch cylinder id say go with the 16gpm pump. a 22 would get almost dangerous... or too fast. valving is totally up to you. its easy to find and for the most part it all works. you wont need a float valve so id say to not look for that as a selling point. if you are going used, singles and doubles will be easier to come across but you could use a 3 spool block. if it were my build id buy a single spool, single detent valve to be mounted in an easy to use location. then use a double for the wedge and log lift

 

[nathon918]

for a 4 inch cylinder id say go with the 16gpm pump. a 22 would get almost dangerous... or too fast. valving is totally up to you. its easy to find and for the most part it all works. you wont need a float valve so id say to not look for that as a selling point. if you are going used, singles and doubles will be easier to come across but you could use a 3 spool block. if it were my build id buy a single spool, single detent valve to be mounted in an easy to use location. then use a double for the wedge and log lift

i too would (and i did) go with a single spool for the split cylinder in a comfortable location, and a seperate 2 spool valve for the lift/4 way. just make sure they are open center valves, and your going to need a power beyond bushing for your split valve to provide power to your second 2 spool valve...
as far as the pump goes, id go with the 22 gpm and if its too fast for you, you can always just throw a needle valve in that circuit to slow it down, (better to have more than not enough)...

 

[Hellbent]

Jakers and nathon, great idea on the single spool with the double for the lift and wedge... Far easier to find!

What would be the difference on the cycle time between the 16 and the 22? Which would be best for if the old cylinder dies and I put a new one on? Maybe a better way to say that would be which pump would work better with a wide range of cylinders?

 

[Hellbent]

a 22 would get almost dangerous... or too fast.

Laughing - Is there such a thing as too fast?

 

[dave_dj1]

Thank you, it was a lot of fun and with the help of everybody here I got it done.
I was tempted to go with a 16 gpm pump but decided I wanted fast cycle times, I'm glad I went with the 22 gpm pump. My main goal was to have it fast, my bro had an old mtd that was soooo slow it was pathetic. At times it's almost not fast enough. I think with the fact that hoses and fittings and ports on the cylinder you are somewhat restricting the flow anyway and I have a 30" stroke cylinder. I have a 17 gal reservoir and so far heat hasn't been an issue. The tank has a sight gauge and a temperature gauge on it.
I have split some rounds that took two of us to put on the lift, lift will lift whatever I put on it with ease. I did neck the lift hoses down to 1/4" so as not to launch rounds