Splitter Issues

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I pulled the line off and cleaned it. I also checked inside the suction side of the pump for anything. I seen a 11gpm 2 stage pump at harbor freight for 109.00 Anything is better than nothing. Right now the misses isn't too happy. :laugh:

Is it a Barnes? If so that sounds about the going rate. I guess I quoted a 16 GPM pump because that is what I run.
 
Before you buy a new pump, I think I would replace the old suction line, just in case the inner liner is collapsing. It's old and probably needs replacing anyway.

Ian
 
I would also suggest fresh fluid too. Don't feed a pump old dirty oil. Especially if that filter looks anything like you described. Ultimately thats probably what did your pump in if it truly is the cause of your issues.
 
As soon as I talk the wife into a new pump thats what I am going to do. I have new fluid, new filter. I put a new fuel filter on the engine, polished the points, replaced the plug wire tip, new spark plug and a gas shutoff. I need a air filter, and maybe I will fit a recoil starter. I guess as long as it starts this easy, then I can just use a pull cord. Also I will test the cylinder, before replacing the pump. I'll get her going again.
 
I put as much pressure on the cylinder as I could with a standard car jack, didn't have a bottle jack. The cylinder didn't budge. What line can I remove and extend the ram out to check for leakage before I buy a pump. I want to make sure that the ram is okay. Before putting the money in a pump. The other thing if its only putting out 200 psi, then the leak in the ram wouldn't show with so little pressure right?
 
before changing any parts, back up please and rethink all the basics of a simple hydraulic circuit..

Under what conditions do you read 150 or 200 psi on the pressure gauge? When the cylinder is at full extend, lever held to extend as though you were trying to split? That forces oil across relief valve and will be testing the setting of the relief valve. That should be 2500 psi or whatever. If you see 200 under that condition, there are problems.

If the 150 is read when valve handle is in neutral and nothing is moving, that is the open center pressure drops back to tank. No resistance, no pressure buildup. 150-200 would be quite normal.

If pressure is low while deadheaded, there is a path to tank with no resistance for whatever amount of oil the pump is trying to move.
-Is there good oil supply to the pump? Hoses, strainer, etc. you have looked at
-Is the pump turning at proper rpm, good coupling not spinning on the shaft, strong engine?
-If the pump is badly worn, it can leak around the gear set. But it takes really bad gears to bypass 11 gpm at only 200 psi.
-If the unloading section is not operating properly, it can bypass the large section oil back to the inlet port. That is how an unloader should work, but it could be doing it at a very low pressure setting.
-If the check valve in the pump is not sealing, the small high pressure section pushes its oil backwards, to the large low pressure section, and out the unloader of the large low pressure section. Typically this is obvious because it works and moves great at pressures below the unloader setting, say 800 psi, then it just stops motion but holds 800 psi on the gauge. Doesn’t sound like what you are seeing.


To properly check the pump it has to have a load and measure flow. ‘Holding pressure’ at deadhead does not mean the pump is good. A good ’11 gpm’ pump would be putting about 3 gpm (once it unloads the large section) across the relief valve at 2500 psi. However, a bad pump could be putting 2.999 gpm across leaks everywhere and still hold just enough to crack the relief valve at 2500 psi.

So, the presence of 2500 psi at stall does not indicate a good pump. The presence of 200 psi at stall does not indicate a bad pump either.

If pump is perfect, but there is an easy path to tank with no resistance, it won’t build up pressure. That path can be cylinder seals gone (but it would have to be bypassing 11 gpm at 200 psi and that is a very big gap).

The spool valve could have some broken spool that always paths to tank. Unlikely.

Most likely the relief valve in the manual valve is dirty, held open, broken spring, etc.


To check cylinder seals, you have to disconnect the rod side hose and check for leakage out of that hose at end of stroke. Better, disconnect both hoses and plug the valve off. Now the cylinder is completely out of the circuit. See if the problem changes.

Side note: This will stir some arguments: pushing back against the cylinder pushing the rod into retract will not test cylinder piston seals UNLESS the rod side hose is open to tank. The rod could move due to leaking spool in the manual valve. However, if the rod side hose is still connected and sealed up by a good tight valve spool, or a plug on the cylinder port, the pistons seals (or even the entire piston) could be totally removed and the rod won’t retract. It turns into a single acting ram like a porta power,. The force is resisted only by the area of the steel rod, and the pressures in the cylinder can get very high. This is called intensification. The rod could be pulled out against bad piston seals, but not pushed in.

So before changing pump, I would verify the suction is good, the coupling is good, take stall pressure with rod fully extended. Then I would open/clean/inspect/reassemble the pump check valve, the pump unloader spool, the manual valve relief spring or ball or spool.

If you didn’t see shiny steel in the return filter, I am betting against the pump as problem. I suspect old 10 year trash or gummy or disintegrated filter element is holding something in the pump or in the manual valve open.

kcj
 
I took pressure readings off the valve, and between the valve and pump when the cylinder was in a push on a piece of wood. 200 max is all I came up with. The coupling is good also. Where is the relief valve for the pump, and where do I look on the valve? I know I have had issues on a tractors hydraulics due to dirt in the relief valve, or spool valves. But I have never dealt with a log splitter and those hydraulics.
 
If it were me and I was at the crossroads that you are at which is trying to decide which component is bad............

I would disconnect the line that makes the cylinder extend and take it off right at the cylinder port. Cap the end of that line very tightly and slowly add pressure to it while watching your gauge. If your gauge goes up to whatever pressure your relief valve is set to then you know your pump is good. Obviously the cylinder is leaking and won't build pressure.

Now if you only get a few hundred PSI then I think you know it is a bad pump.
 
Well I tore down the pump. Some wear in the 1 side of the pump, low side, and no wear in the high side. The Key in the high side was sheared and non existent. This would explain why it wouldn't produce any pressure when trying to split. Should I just replace the key and reassemble the pump. I can see where the front seal isn't great, but I only have a couple dollars in a key to lose. Is it worth it? Everything else in the pump looks great, no slop and maybe a couple thousandths wear.
 
I would put a new key in it and see if it works. If it does great you saved some money. If it does not solve the problem the key material could be stuck in the valve.

Now that you have had the pump apart we know who to call when we want to take our pumps apart.:):)
 
Well I tore down the pump. Some wear in the 1 side of the pump, low side, and no wear in the high side. The Key in the high side was sheared and non existent. This would explain why it wouldn't produce any pressure when trying to split. Should I just replace the key and reassemble the pump. I can see where the front seal isn't great, but I only have a couple dollars in a key to lose. Is it worth it? Everything else in the pump looks great, no slop and maybe a couple thousandths wear.

Ya take any pics??
 
No, Thought about it. I wish I did. Well 3.99 for some assorted woodruff keys, and a can of brake cleaner and its splitting again. Not sure if its hitting 2nd stage, but it probably is going through some of the splits with some huge knots. Its a very simple pump. I found the high side was missing the key, so I replaced that and there was a problem with the relief valve. I pulled the smashed ball out of the relief valve on the pump, and put a ball bearing in its place. The dentent now kicks out at the end of the stroke, and im getting readings over 2000 psi. So there were some issues with the pump, but now im happy. Eventually I will sell this one and replace it with a newer model, but at least im splitting again! Thanks everyone for the help. Its amazing that pump held up after losing a key inside.
 
Glad ya got it fixed. :clap: I love messing with spliters. They amaze the ever loving #### outta me for some reason!!!
 

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