Stihl MS 291 burnt out after 1 hr

[west041]

Sorry for my abrasive posts. I came here looking for advice and got plenty of it as well as some flak. Not all of it was good natured but I guess this is how this site is. Maybe I need to get some thicker skin.

People have made some comments about the fact that I joined two years ago. Yes, I did register a user name, I just didn't have time then to go on the forum. It isn't because I was "lurking" around getting information for whatever purpose.

It is not outside the realm of possibility at all that this was caused by operator error, be it neglect or just an overlooked mistake. Be that it is may I feel that I was operating the saw within normal operating procedure. If Stihl wants pictures of the outside of the brake drum or the sprocket to help their diagnosis then I will send them along and post them here when Stihl makes their decision. I'm sure that will answer some questions for people.

Just like other forums, we all are here because we have similar interests and that should be enough to make it easy to be somewhat cordial. I was taken aback by a lot of the posts I viewed as presumptuous and insulting. I admit I am not used to forums where people just say what they think and are free to insult others. I apologize for my reactions that were reciprocally insulting.

 

[lone wolf]

Sorry for my abrasive posts. I came here looking for advice and got plenty of it as well as some flak. Not all of it was good natured but I guess this is how this site is. Maybe I need to get some thicker skin.

People have made some comments about the fact that I joined two years ago. Yes, I did register a user name, I just didn't have time then to go on the forum. It isn't because I was "lurking" around getting information for whatever purpose.

It is not outside the realm of possibility at all that this was caused by operator error, be it neglect or just an overlooked mistake. Be that it is may I feel that I was operating the saw within normal operating procedure. If Stihl wants pictures of the outside of the brake drum or the sprocket to help their diagnosis then I will send them along and post them here when Stihl makes their decision. I'm sure that will answer some questions for people.

Just like other forums, we all are here because we have similar interests and that should be enough to make it easy to be somewhat cordial. I was taken aback by a lot of the posts I viewed as presumptuous and insulting. I admit I am not used to forums where people just say what they think and are free to insult others. I apologize for my reactions that were reciprocally insulting.

So what do you think happened after all this?

 

[opinion]

Sorry for my abrasive posts. I came here looking for advice and got plenty of it as well as some flak. Not all of it was good natured but I guess this is how this site is. Maybe I need to get some thicker skin.

People have made some comments about the fact that I joined two years ago. Yes, I did register a user name, I just didn't have time then to go on the forum. It isn't because I was "lurking" around getting information for whatever purpose.

It is not outside the realm of possibility at all that this was caused by operator error, be it neglect or just an overlooked mistake. Be that it is may I feel that I was operating the saw within normal operating procedure. If Stihl wants pictures of the outside of the brake drum or the sprocket to help their diagnosis then I will send them along and post them here when Stihl makes their decision. I'm sure that will answer some questions for people.

Just like other forums, we all are here because we have similar interests and that should be enough to make it easy to be somewhat cordial. I was taken aback by a lot of the posts I viewed as presumptuous and insulting. I admit I am not used to forums where people just say what they think and are free to insult others. I apologize for my reactions that were reciprocally insulting.

Stuff happens... Are manufacturers supposed to warranty something because every customer says they've been using saws for over 20 years?

 

[west041]

Stuff happens... Are manufacturers supposed to warranty something because every customer says they've been using saws for over 20 years?

I've said all along that this is up to Stihl. I am just waiting for them to respond to my emails so I can plead my case. Some people may not agree with this. That is fine. I imagine that many people, whether they feel they made a mistake or not, would try to get a warranty claim out of a saw that burnt out after 1 hour. If people out there are going to sit here and say that they would not be on the phone with Stihl if they were in my shoes, then I'd find that a bit hard to believe.

 

[west041]

After reading 9 pages of posts and gleaning quite a bit of information, I'm not going to say that I didn't make a mistake or that I absolutely deserve to have the repair covered. But I'm going to try. If people think that I'm being ridiculous then so be it. Thankfully I don't live and die by what a few of people that I've never met think of me.

 

[west041]

So what do you think happened after all this?

I honestly think during my last three or four cuts through the spruce that either:
A. I was trying to hard to power through it quickly and somehow caused some overheat situation while the chain was moving through the wood - ie RPMs to high for the chain speed
B. I was leaning on the chain brake (NOT engaging it) causing a rub situation similar to gently pressing the brakes on your car, or
C. Some internal failure that I am not knowledgeable enough to explain, such as a bearing failure or manufacturing defect.

Just going by what people have posted, it seems that C could be a bit of a reach. I don't know. When it first happened I thought for sure, 99%, that it was C. But not so much now after reading everything.

What I DON'T think happened but some people have mentioned:
-high idle with chain brake engaged
- chain brake engaged during cutting
- improper bar and chain for the saw (i was running a brand new OEM 16" bar/chisel tooth chain straight from the dealer that came with new saw purchase)
- dull chain
- chain on backwards
- no bar oil
- over rev with chain stopped in deep wood

 

[super3]

If 041 in your title is an indication of what you were used to running in the past, that could be part of the problem. 041's had some torque, you could lean on them quite a bit. 291 is one you just need to let it cut.

 

[big t double]

I've said all along that this is up to Stihl. I am just waiting for them to respond to my emails so I can plead my case. Some people may not agree with this. That is fine. I imagine that many people, whether they feel they made a mistake or not, would try to get a warranty claim out of a saw that burnt out after 1 hour. If people out there are going to sit here and say that they would not be on the phone with Stihl if they were in my shoes, then I'd find that a bit hard to believe.

I say all the power to ya...like I said above, sometimes stihl will cover things like this on good faith. ive seen it...ive got things covered for customers. stihl paid parts, customer paid labor. good luck man.

 

[Weesa20]

What gauge/pitch chain and how many tooth sprocket? (I ask only b/c I have seen some crazy setup combos from some dealers).

 

[AOrtlieb]

Had a semi-similar situation about a month ago as well. I was cutting with a friend's 291 in Northern Michigan. The temp was around 10 above, but the saw had set overnight in the barn, and the temp had dropped below zero. Cutting through red oak when I noticed smoke from the bar, which at first I thought was steam from hitting snow. Sprocket seized as I was shutting it down. Went inside and used the search function on this site which was when I first learned about summer versus winter weight bar oil. Sprocket turned again after cooling down, let the bar oil warn indoors overnight, and was back to cutting the next morning. Never did seem to throw much oil, however.

If the sprocket hadn't seized, I was probably well on the way to melting it down.

 

[Tyrel]

Feel bad for the o.p. What makes even more of a bummer is that it was his fathers new saw. That and all the slack he getting from here. Very repetitive. Operator error or not, it seems to happen a lot with that model of saw. I would think stihl would have put a little more ingenuity into it. Especially to accommodate for the not so saw savvy home owner.

 

[west041]

What gauge/pitch chain and how many tooth sprocket? (I ask only b/c I have seen some crazy setup combos from some dealers).

3/8th pitch chain, I'm not sure how many tooth sprocket? The saw was completely stock, I'll have to look when I get a chance. I don't have the saw with me right now.

 

[watsonr]

If you find yourself pushing down on the bar either by pushing down on the front handle or pulling up on the rear while the saw is dawged in.... your slipping the clutch. Being in a hurry with a dull chain, to just finish up the last few cuts has probably cost people more saws than will ever be admitted. Wouldn't surprise me that some guys even had scored pistons because of the added demand placed on the saw because of pulling up/dull chain and the subsequent heat it generated.

Dawgs/spikes are there to support the weight of the saw while using the saw in the "felling position" while horizontal cutting. And all to often we see users in almost every you tube video pulling up on the rear handles, possibly taxing the saw beyond it's intended limits. Why everybody here replies "that saw won't pull that bar"... yes it will, the clutch won't take it, or the oiler won't perform or the motor will stall....

I wish you luck.

 

[HuskStihl]

Post some close-ups of the cutters. The clutch was slipping. You were either trying to get more out of the saw than it was able to safely deliver, the chain was not as sharp as you think (your idea of sharp may differ from mine), or there was a defect with the clutch/brake/etc.

 

[HuskStihl]

Also, this style saw is not forgiving of heat. I had a coil start going out while stumping and smoked the clutch. It was on a mag cased saw with an outboard clutch so no big deal, but it would have melted a inboard plastic case saw

 

[AKDoug]

3/8th pitch chain, I'm not sure how many tooth sprocket? The saw was completely stock, I'll have to look when I get a chance. I don't have the saw with me right now.

Then the shop converted it. They come with .325 stock. This opens a whole new realm of possibility if the shop converted the saw and used the wrong drum or other mistake.

Get a part number off the drum if you can.

 

[opinion]

It uses a spur sprocket. That saw can handle a 3/8ths.

 

[lone wolf]

MS 291 Specifications - Mid-Range Use
DISPLACEMENT 55.5 cc (3.39 cu. in.)
ENGINE POWER 2.8 kW (3.76 bhp)
POWERHEAD WEIGHT 5.6 kg (12.3 Ibs.)
GUIDE BAR LENGTHS* (Recommended ranges) 40 to 50 cm (16" to 20")
FUEL CAPACITY 500 cc (16.9 oz.)
CHAIN OIL CAPACITY 240 cc (8.12 oz.)
OILOMATIC® CHAIN .325 RM3

 

[lone wolf]

Then the shop converted it. They come with .325 stock. This opens a whole new realm of possibility if the shop converted the saw and used the wrong drum or other mistake.

Get a part number off the drum if you can.

 

[Weesa20]

I agree that it will pull it, especially with a 16" bar but according to the 2013 Stihl catalog it should have .325p .063ga 26 RM3 67 chain on bar 3003 812 7013. OP says it has full chisel and 3/8p from the dealer, will be interested to see the sprocket (it could have been converted to a rim sprocket, too). 3/8 .050 aggressive chain may have contributed to the heat generated around the clutch.