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Yeah, let's take the Trump hate **** over to the political forum, and keep this thread on topic.
I don't mind a good squabble....
I don't mind a good squabble....
Stihl sucks at customer service
- Thread starter Dave P 71801
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I like the moderator here, his job is thankless enough.
He has enough headaches because of me.
He has enough headaches because of me.
drumbum
ArboristSite Operative
Ever consider them one and the same?
Run it like you stole it. I run about a 45:1 mix in all my saws. Both my 261 and 462 are less than a year old and I fired em up and cut wood. No WOT out of wood. Good luck with your new saw.
Fatherwheels
Addicted to ArboristSite
I would use 40:1 Mix, let saw idle for Five minutes or whatever it takes to get warm,
by warm I mean the piston will expand faster than the cylinder, this will mean the piston
will have scary low clearance, and rub on the cylinder, Five minutes or so idle should allow the
cylinder to expand and avoid contact with the piston.
Then run the saw in medium length cuts allowing some time between them, and always let the saw
Idle or the for10 to 20 seconds before turning it off, this gives it a chance to dissipate
some of the heat before shut down, shutting down a saw right after a bout of cutting allows the heat
that was transferred to the cylinder wall and exhaust port to build up more than it would if you let the
saw run until the cooling fan does it job.
Just keep your ear open for the burble fourstrokimg sound the engine should make when pulled
open before you enter the cut, that sound should go away when the saw is under the pressure of cutting
and return again as you near the end of the cut when there is little to know pressure on the engine again.
If you can not hear the engine four stroking, get someone to adjust the carb, a screening engine noise
with no four stroking will melt your engine in a very short time, on tight new saw, or at least put the wheels
of destruction in process.
I hope this helps, and you have a better experience with your new saw.
Needless to say, keep the chain oiled and holding the right tension, and sharp, sharp chain
will always be your friend, and your saw will be a whole lot happier too.
A blunt chain, just stay at home, as nothing good will ever come of it.
by warm I mean the piston will expand faster than the cylinder, this will mean the piston
will have scary low clearance, and rub on the cylinder, Five minutes or so idle should allow the
cylinder to expand and avoid contact with the piston.
Then run the saw in medium length cuts allowing some time between them, and always let the saw
Idle or the for10 to 20 seconds before turning it off, this gives it a chance to dissipate
some of the heat before shut down, shutting down a saw right after a bout of cutting allows the heat
that was transferred to the cylinder wall and exhaust port to build up more than it would if you let the
saw run until the cooling fan does it job.
Just keep your ear open for the burble fourstrokimg sound the engine should make when pulled
open before you enter the cut, that sound should go away when the saw is under the pressure of cutting
and return again as you near the end of the cut when there is little to know pressure on the engine again.
If you can not hear the engine four stroking, get someone to adjust the carb, a screening engine noise
with no four stroking will melt your engine in a very short time, on tight new saw, or at least put the wheels
of destruction in process.
I hope this helps, and you have a better experience with your new saw.
Needless to say, keep the chain oiled and holding the right tension, and sharp, sharp chain
will always be your friend, and your saw will be a whole lot happier too.
A blunt chain, just stay at home, as nothing good will ever come of it.
I'd ask the dealer you're picking the saw up from to fuel it and fire it up and tune it. Never bought a new saw, but that's my understanding of what they're supposed to do anyway.
Given the issues you claim to have had in this thread, I wouldn't stray from what the manual says even the tiniest bit for the first couple months of ownership. Actually read the manual and do what it says. Run Stihl oil at exactly the recommended ratio, break in warm up shut down etc. Maybe even Stihl premix, depending on how much cutting you'll be doing.
Given the issues you claim to have had in this thread, I wouldn't stray from what the manual says even the tiniest bit for the first couple months of ownership. Actually read the manual and do what it says. Run Stihl oil at exactly the recommended ratio, break in warm up shut down etc. Maybe even Stihl premix, depending on how much cutting you'll be doing.
I agree here, stick to the Owners Manual 100%, let the dealer fuel it and fire it and do whatever they want to tune it, get it in writing when you sign for it, and then run it according to the Stihl manual (assuming it says 50:1 using Stihl oil and the correct fuel).
heat cycles are key to any new engine build, whether an owners manual says it or not, though. can't just take it and run it WOT right when it's cold,
heat cycles are key to any new engine build, whether an owners manual says it or not, though. can't just take it and run it WOT right when it's cold,
Fatherwheels
Addicted to ArboristSite
That’s exactly what the Stihl dealer did to all the new saws I bought,
take them off the shelf, fuel oil over tighten chain and rev the crap out of it as soon
as it starts, that helped me move to Echo, where the dealer starts it and let’s it warm up
before testing for four stroking.
Regarding the 50:1mix, the same Stihl dealer told me to fill the chamber on the 1ltr bottle
to the top, way past the 50:1 mark, that I agree with, he also told me to use any oil that met the standards of
the Stihl oils, they can’t make you use a specific brand,, I think it’s common for manufacturers
to state 50:1 as that’s the measure used to get the saw through the EPA test, more oil won’t kill
your engine as quickly as less will, I tend to play it safe and stick to 40:1, Stihl or any manufacturer would
have great difficulty testing at one oil ratio to achieve EPA approval and then state a different
number on the owners manual, but they get around this by stating if the oil is not their brand then use at xx ratio,
he sold me Husqvarna XP for my new Stihl.
yeah, Emissions politics plays into the dealers, it's all rubbish.
Dealers taking saws out and going WOT on a brand new saw with first fuel fill = stupidity. They are trying to sell saws, get the customer out the door. It's simply not the smart thing to do with any internal combustion engine when it's cold. Physics doesn't change!
Those all come down to the people, like anything else. The right person, will do the right thing.
Dealers taking saws out and going WOT on a brand new saw with first fuel fill = stupidity. They are trying to sell saws, get the customer out the door. It's simply not the smart thing to do with any internal combustion engine when it's cold. Physics doesn't change!
Those all come down to the people, like anything else. The right person, will do the right thing.
That's Great!!!
the chances of you getting another bum 461 are slim to none.
the chances of you getting another bum 461 are slim to none.
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We avoided politics,
and now you guys are trying to turn this into an oil thread!!!
and now you guys are trying to turn this into an oil thread!!!
Fatherwheels
Addicted to ArboristSite
Yes, and then the customer comes back with a scored saw, dealer blames customer, yet for all
we know it could have been the dealers careless inconsiderate WOT on a cold engine that
initiated the failure, that’s why I only buy from someone I can trust not to do such, as you said,
the right person will do the right thing.
Dave P 71801
ArboristSite Operative
Yes that’s the PDI I was talking about earlier and what was done to the saw about three weeks before I bought it when the other customer said they wanted it because of it being done is the whole reason he could not send it back to Stihl because it had been fueled
Fatherwheels
Addicted to ArboristSite
It really annoys me how some dealers do the WOT on a cold engine, I know I will be disliked for
my attitude and ridiculed for being difficult, but if a dealer won’t start a piece of plant and let it warm up
and lube a bit I just go elsewhere.
I’ve gone into a shop to get my saw tuned in the past, seen a mountain of saws in a pile
against a wall, bars spikes chains all dug into the surrounding saws on the stack, I thought they must
be junk,
next up dealer put my saw on the pile, I walked over lifted it and left, that saw of mine was a week old
and was back to check carb adjustment after it’s first weeks work, I never went there again.
Given the experience you had with the first 461, you should let it warm, make a video of you cutting
light and heavy chunks of wood, a dozen of light cuts, half a dozen heavy, and another dozen light
cuts, people here will soon notice if the saw is too lean, if you think it’s lean during the test, post after
only a few cuts, don’t keep going until you cook the saw.
RED-85-Z51
Addicted to ArboristSite
It comes down to ring seating. Ball and roller bearings dont need break in like a car or mower engine with white metal bearings...so the initial run in is pretty much solely to start seating the rings to get maximum sealing. The first few seconds, when the crosshatch is new is when you will get your most vigorous seating...and the rings get pushed out by compression which requires more rpms or load. Once the crosshatch is knocked down, sealing slows down quite a bit and you can find yourself with a top end that may never fully seal or that will take many many tanks to gradually break in. When i worked for a dealer, we were instructed to fuel a new saw, crank it with the brake on...once running with the choke off, let it warm at Idle for a few seconds then bring it up on the brake a few times, then brake off..and work it up fo full song a few times. It doesnt hurt anything, and break-in is well underway when i hand it over to a customer.
Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk
Fatherwheels
Addicted to ArboristSite
Break in is important, but as you say, engine needs to be warm, so the cylinder
expands, wot at the wrong time will cause piston to expand while cylinder being
of greater mass will not, next thing metal transfers from piston to cylinder and
the engine gets even hotter and locks up.
I understand you being in the business already know this and avoid such, but a lot
don’t know, and a lot don’t care, and that’s my gripe with such kinds.
There’s also the fact that clearances on new engines are small, and this needs to be
factored in before going WOT on a new engine. Factory Clearances on some brands
leave more room for error, I seen on video where a guy took apart and measured a MS 362
against a Makita 6100, MS362 had scary low piston clearance.
expands, wot at the wrong time will cause piston to expand while cylinder being
of greater mass will not, next thing metal transfers from piston to cylinder and
the engine gets even hotter and locks up.
I understand you being in the business already know this and avoid such, but a lot
don’t know, and a lot don’t care, and that’s my gripe with such kinds.
There’s also the fact that clearances on new engines are small, and this needs to be
factored in before going WOT on a new engine. Factory Clearances on some brands
leave more room for error, I seen on video where a guy took apart and measured a MS 362
against a Makita 6100, MS362 had scary low piston clearance.
Correct.
