The Ethanol SUCKS thread....

[GeeVee]

Ethanol Fuel.

Where I live, I just haven't been able to track down ethanol free fuel, but after yesterday, I'm going to locate it, and get a drum.

I awake early every day to begin with, and there are times I wish I lived at the Ranch so I could make noise early. Here at the Beach, we all live on lots 75x105.

At least yesterday I was pleasantly surprised how quiet the new HF Chain Sharpener is, and how well it worked. Sharpened the only two that were dulled, and they didn't need much since I change them more often than most would, and I have a bunch.

All I wanted to do this long weekend was surf a little and make rounds, maybe burn some rotten and punky trees I'm tired of moving around

Get to the ranch and go to fueling the MS 270, and see the gas just pouring out the other side. I'm thinking the worst, like cracked tank, since the back of my Tahoe is loaded with tools all the time, some of them sharp, like pruners, axes, auger bits.

But that can't be, it is always in a case?

Still on its side on the splitting stump, the sun just right, I look in the tank and see a beam of light coming through the half full tank. If the sun hadn't been at just the right angle, it would have taken me ten whole minutes to figure out what was up.

Stinkin Ethanol Fuel ruined the fuel line to the point it rotted right at the entry to the tank, the filter and tube dropped in, and the other end I presume is still attached to the carby.

Really, since its July and flat, I merely wanted to cut rounds. Wednesday I had to spend four hours making my oldest sons 4 Runner Starter independent from the vehicle, so I got dissed then. Four hours was an improvement from when I had to do my wifes, which was six hours. His is still in the driveway, my rebuilder took the holiday off too.

Ne'er the less, I was determined yesterday. Even though the 270 was down, I had the MS 360 PRO with me with a 25" b/c. I've had some say the 25" is too large?

I cut a bunch, three tanks of fuel. It WILL suck down fuel, but I think it worked quite well.

Not that Ethanol had anything to do with it, but then in the mid day I had a hydraulic hose get religious on my grapple on Pedro, so I had to switch to the forks to get my logs off the ground. (I use my grapple or forks as a bucking bench, since I cut logs to eight or ten feet and stack them in square cribs until I am ready to make them rounds)

I quit when the oldest came home from work, and had a few cold ones and poked the fire a bit. He lives down there now, off grid. It was only 95*.

I am going to find the Ethanol free fuel and get a 25 or 35 gal drum and a hand pump at least. I have too many small engines to have ethanol breakdowns, and not enough free time that I'm going to spend it fixing ethanol related issues.

The oldest uses a half gallon a day at most for his generator, but it will pay off getting a drum and set it up.

 

[brokenbudget]

when are people going to stop whining about the ethanol in fuel and start jumping on the engine manufacturers about using compatible products to work with it. it isn't going away. chances are it has nothing to do with the ethanol rather than the user leaving the fuel in the tank longer than supposed to.
you know the real reason dealers and shops recomend the higher octane fuels? not for the octane rating. it usually has far less ethanol in it.
sounds like you use regular and let it sit for a while in the tank.
unless your using it up fast, the barrel o fuel aint going to be beneficial and probably wasteful. better off going down the road a ways to find either less or no ethanol.
search the internet for stations around your area that have ethanol ratings for their fuel. then make a choice.

 

[mooseracing]

when are people going to stop whining about the ethanol in fuel and start jumping on the engine manufacturers about using compatible products to work with it.

I don't think any of the manufactures could give a rats ass about anything but current production just like the gov for mandating it. It's a joke to put something out, and give no one a choice, that can ruin engines from the past 10 yrs or sooner.

 

[brokenbudget]

It's a joke to put something out, and give no one a choice, that can ruin engines from the past 10 yrs or sooner.

the thing is, people do have a choice to buy compatible products. and the fuel is still out there for people to buy, they just need to do a little more leg work to find it. maybe people are just getting lazy.

 

[Whitespider]

when are people going to stop whining about the ethanol in fuel and start jumping on the engine manufacturers about using compatible products to work with it.

That won't be me...
Ethanol is a horrible motor fuel. Less power (per gallon) at higher cost, higher temperatures and accelerated engine wear. That crap ain’t efficient buy any scale… cost or performance.
I'll say it again, ETHANOL IS HORRIBLE MOTOR FUEL! Ya' can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear... and that's a fact. Even the Eropeans have learned and are moving away from it... it ain't the answer to any problem, real or imagined.
Ethanol is one of the biggest scams ever pulled on the American people, and I ain't rollin' over for it... Every one of us should complain loud and often, kick the politicians that support it out of office, and flat refuse to buy it whenever possible (even if we have to drive a bit further to do that).

Nope, I won’t pressure the manufacturers to build compatible systems… Rather I applaud their refusal to do so. It will take more people to “wake-up” to the scam before we can ever begin to turn the idiocy around.

Ethanol is just flat STUPID!

 

[brokenbudget]

oh yeah, why cloud the issue with facts....:msp_rolleyes:

 

[Whitespider]

Facts are what I base my opinion on.
I’m a realist… fantasy worlds are for fools, drunks and small children.

 

[promac850]

the thing is, people do have a choice to buy compatible products. and the fuel is still out there for people to buy, they just need to do a little more leg work to find it. maybe people are just getting lazy.

Hey there, not all of us run fancy ass new Stihls and most of us don't want to run them anyhow... our old saws deserve the proper fuel, which is pure gas! Same for older cars, and everything else! Not every one can afford to buy the new ####. Get your head on straight.

 

[o8f150]

if i want non ethonol gas i have to drive over 50 miles round trip,, to me its not worth it since i only use maybe 3 gallons of mix a year,, i just keep marine stabil on hand which i have never had any problems with fuel issues

 

[NCSteveH]

You are not going to see anyone with any clout do anything about these issues, to many people are making a lot of money off it. I see it first hand, every repair shop in the area is up 300%+ over last year with carb sales already this year. When you factor in labor charges it adds up pretty quick on the bottom line.

 

[Whitespider]

It’s the guy sticking his credit card in the pump who has the real clout… you, me and Joe next door.
As long as we’re buying it, they’re gonna’ keep feeding it to us.
Ethanol-free fuel can be found near everywhere in this country (usually within 25-30 miles), I’d suggest everyone find it and stop buying E10, E15 and E85… If they can’t sell it, they’ll stop making it. At the same time, stop buying “flex-fuel” cars and trucks.

I haven’t purchased a single gallon of Ethanol blended fuel since the 80’s, I make it a point not to… If someone brings me a small engine with running problems and informs me it has Ethanol blended fuel in it, I empty it on the ground in front of them while stating the crap don’t even make a good weed killer.

 

[Denis Gionet]

It’s the guy sticking his credit card in the pump who has the real clout…

... If someone brings me a small engine with running problems and informs me it has Ethanol blended fuel in it, I empty it on the ground in front of them while stating the crap don’t even make a good weed killer.

Ok, so a real-world question about a real-world problem, and I'm guessing that you're qualified to answer this, no sass intended.

My 10-year old 2-stroke trimmer has been running like crap this spring, and/or won't run, seems to not pump fuel anymore. NOT the vent in the fuel cap either. My theory is it's the fuel. What's happening to the carb that it won't run even when cleaned out and filled with E-free premium mix (from my Husky can) ? I was thinking that the diaphragms aren't functioning properly anymore, even though they appear visually ok. Same with my old OLD Jonsereds 33cc saw, same symptoms. Can't get it to run even once cleared out.

Any suggestions ? And I agree that E-fuel is crap, but in your opinion is it a (the) likely cause for issues like this ? And what's the cure ? A new carb, or just a kit ?

 

[Mad Professor]

Tale of two engines.

1) Troy Built (when they were made in Troy NY circa 1972) tiller w/6 HP Tecumseh. Original carb and innards.

Before E10 I never bothered with fuel shutoff, changed oil and cleaned air filter in the spring or before putting up in the fall, 2-3 pulls and off to the garden each spring.

Since E10 I've been shutting fuel off and running carb dry in the fall. Forgot to do so last November.......

Tiller started this spring but ran like (censored) before dying. Removed the carb bowl and found a jello like substance ca. 1/2 " deep in float bowl.

2) Stihl BR400 with optional spraying attachment. Had 3/4 tank of 100LL mixed 50:1 with Golden Spectro left over last November.

Yesterday I needed to spray for cabbage worms, asparagus beetles, potato beetles, tomato horn worms,late blight on potatoes and tomatoes, and mildew on grapes. I checked the fuel and it still smelled fresh, no separation. started on 3rd pull and ran like a champ.

I only run 100LL in all my 2-strokes, and will start doing so, after the tiller problem, in my other small engines for last tank of fuel before putting up for any period of time. For an extra $1.50-2/gal no need to buy stabilizer, drain tanks/carbs and or R + R fuel systems.

If you are running LOTS of fresh mix/fuel daily/weekly I can see using Corn Fed Crap to save $$$. For me it is not worth the aggravation of machines not starting/running when I need them, and fuel system parts turning into mush

BTW, besides 100LL and race gas, no non Corn Fed Fuel for > 100 miles here.

 

[blsnelling]

There are NO sources for alcohol free fuel around here. The closest is 42 miles away. I have no option but to burn it.

 

[Whitespider]

Assuming it is a carb/fuel issue (and not scored/worn rings/cylinder/piston) and all the passages in the carb are indeed clean, I would think new diagrams in the carb should do the trick. If the needle seat is plastic I’d replace the needle and seat also. Might as well replace all the lines before they crack or crumble. Ethanol dries, hardens and deteriorates plastic/rubber parts, even if they look good they won’t be working properly. I just fixed a string trimmer for my brother’s FIL… He uses Ethanol in all his stuff and the plastic seat disintegrated when I took the carb apart. The diaphragms “looked” OK, but when comparing them to the new ones was like comparing fresh soft bread to burnt toast. I pulled the exhaust and showed him the start of piston scoring… but he still refuses to believe Ethanol is the “root” of his problems (it’s a cheap WallyWorld trimmer, not worth putting a piston in it… he’s gonna’ run it till it dies, which won’t be long using Ethanol). Two years ago I bought a (non-running) 1974 Harley Davidson golf cart from him… The piston was scored to the point you couldn’t tell the piston from the rings and the carb diaphragms crumbled in my hand (carb was last rebuilt in 2006). That two cycle engine calls for 80:1 mix, he ran Stihl 50:1 with Ethanol blended fuel… After a carb rebuild and a new piston (I honed the cylinder to “good-enough” for a low RPM two cycle) I’ve run 75:1 non-Ethanol in it for two years, using the cheapest two cycle oil I can find (I just drove it 8 miles round trip, at full throttle, to a beer drinkin’ buddy’s house in 100[sup]o[/sup] heat on the 4th). My brother’s FIL tells me it never ran as good as it does now, and it would never idle from the day he got it… Yeah? What a surprise, yet he still won’t listen to me about Ethanol bended fuel in two cycle engines. When I get around to replacing or boring the cylinder so compression is back where it’s supposed to be it will run better yet.

 

[blsnelling]

My common lawn equipment, 2 and 4 stroke, is put away in the fall without draining or treating. It always fires right up and runs great in the spring. Why? I don't know. I have seen fuel go bad in just a few months elsewhere though.

 

[sunfish]

The politics behind ethanol is what really sucks!

 

[hamish]

All saws made in at least the past 10 years have been rated or use with E10 or less, and the uel lines, carb compnents et al, are rated for the ethanol based fuels. Replacement carb kits and fuel hoses are now compliant also. I run ethanol everyday, and buy the cheapest gas around. Its stored in non vented containers and used on a regular basis. I have not had a single ailure due to ethanol based fules.........but I can smell most of my customers saws as soon as they come in the door. Old ethanol is no different than old gas, just reacts differently.

 

[Whitespider]

There are NO sources for alcohol free fuel around here. The closest is 42 miles away. I have no option but to burn it.

42 miles wouldn't stop me...
Make the drive a couple times a month with a few large gas cans... problem solved.

 

[komatsuvarna]

I've ran it for as long as its been available...which is about 4-5 years in my area I guess. I've never had an ethanol related problem that I know of. I keep fresh mix. If its more than a month old I dump it in the mower. I haven't used fuel stabilizer but Im sure it wont hurt it. I use good synthetic oil that mixes with Alcohol and I keep my stuff tuned correctly. Between 3 cutoff saws at work and my saws and trimmers at home, I burn on average about 2 1/2 gallons per week of ethanol mix with the majority of that in the Makita and Stihl cutoffs. I just don't see the big deal with it if you use it fast and the equipment is tuned right. Sure pure gas is better, but if ya can't get any its not. I could get non ethanol at a local farm store for a month or so, but last time I went it was 10% too. Oh well.....