The MS461.........A Peek Inside

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more info on the strato part


I will try to explain that the best way I can because my 'book' knowledge is pretty low on technical stuff.

Where the design of the 461 differs from other stratified charge engines is that the others use fresh air routed through an additional air valve(butterfly) at the intake.
All that achieved with some additional fancy hardware at the carb end.

Well, the 461 does not use fresh air for the stratification. Instead it uses the exhaust gases for doing the job.Which is why the trasfer ports are begin on the exhaust side of the cylinder, at the bottom end and curve upwards to either sideon the cylinder walls.

The result is a less complicated strato charged engine.
The cut out on the piston skirt does seem to act as an on/off valve for controlling the intake air from the cylinder to the transfer ports.

The carb looks the same as the one on the 460, except for this difference on the outside
This is to reduce the opening of the carb butterfly in the 'Start' position.
Even a slight pressure on the throttle has the engine screaming in the mid ranges.So that additional arm helps the scream at a reasonable level.

The jet sizes are changed. low is richer. High is leaner, for the removable high speed jet.(0.58 in place of the 0.68)

To increase air velocity into the crankcase, for better flushing of the crankcase and for better directional air flow, something called a washbridge has been fitted across both halves of the crankcase, at the inlet side
 
Thanks. Is it the round or oval shaped "automotive type" air filter?

it's one of these

attachment.php
 
It might have been a hair grabby. Nothing bad I didn't think. You get a grinder yet?

No Mike....I've talked myself out of one for the moment. :D

Nope have at it!! Picking up a 461 Wednesday. I'm interested to see the comparison.

Picking up a 461? This saw is becoming the most popular girl at the dance huh? :laugh:


Jasha the carb isn't governed, and I've not fitted a 460 coil (don't have one here right now) but I've read that it does work.
 
From what I have seen in the video, I may have to sell my 441 and give the new girl a try lol..... I can't wait to see how the ported 441 CM compares to a ported 461, I like my 441 but my money has to go to the 461. Randy how does the vibration feel on this saw? I hear it is pretty smooth for Rubber Mounts, any truth??

As I'm typing I can't but help think if I can pick a 461 powerhead up for around $915-$950 and get $750-$800 out of the 441 I may become the owner of a 461.... of course I need to hear some reviews before I make my final choice...:D
 
more info on the strato part...

Well, the 461 does not use fresh air for the stratification. Instead it uses the exhaust gases for doing the job.Which is why the trasfer ports are begin on the exhaust side of the cylinder, at the bottom end and curve upwards to either sideon the cylinder walls.

The result is a less complicated strato charged engine....

This is interesting information.

So I was <a href="http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/210908.htm#post3880870">right</a>, they <i>are </i> using a form of Exhaust Gas Recirculation to achieve their emissions reduction. It's pretty clever... Tree Monkey, your thoughts? :msp_smile:

Better make sure your mix oil is good lads; some of it is going through your engine twice! ;-)
 
this quote was on another site ,it apears he put a 460 coil on for tuning
no wires to the carb ,looks right off a 460 except throttle lever linkage has extra dowl on it


That was my impression also after I 'dissected' my first MS461.
No complications.
But fine tuning the carb would be a pain because of the speed limiter at 13500 rpm.Anything above that causes the tachometer to go berserk.
Doing a 'by ear' tune-up is a bit dicey for me because I need time to get familiar with this saw
I found an easy fix for that!
When you want to adjust the carb, replace the ignition module with that of a MS460. That eliminates the speed limiter. Do the tuning and refit the original module.
This method improved the performance by at least 15%.

what am i not reading, why wouldn't you just leave the 460 coil in there permanently?
 
From what I have seen in the video, I may have to sell my 441 and give the new girl a try lol..... I can't wait to see how the ported 441 CM compares to a ported 461, I like my 441 but my money has to go to the 461. Randy how does the vibration feel on this saw? I hear it is pretty smooth for Rubber Mounts, any truth??


As I'm typing I can't but help think if I can pick a 461 powerhead up for around $915-$950 and get $750-$800 out of the 441 I may become the owner of a 461.... of course I need to hear some reviews before I make my final choice...:D

It feels like a 460 in my hands.....the rubber av doesn't bother me on a saw though.

What exactly does the 461r come with?

hmmm lets see 3/4 wrap high volume oiler oversize clutch cover dual dawgs roller chain catcher possibly a larger high speed jet than normal ???

I don't think the jet is any different but everything else is spot on. :)

what am i not reading, why wouldn't you just leave the 460 coil in there permanently?

These new coils are pretty smart.......retarding at start up......advancing at the upper end. Swapping coils may hurt performance. We'll test that in KY today.
 
These new coils are pretty smart.......retarding at start up......advancing at the upper end. Swapping coils may hurt performance. We'll test that in KY today.

sounds like a good idea to try one on a 460 :msp_sneaky:
 
As I'm typing I can't but help think if I can pick a 461 powerhead up for around $915-$950 and get $750-$800 out of the 441 I may become the owner of a 461....

That's what I did -- sold my 441-CM to a buddy who was looking for one, and got the 461. There was no rhyme or reason to do it; the whole opportunity kind of just fell into my lap and it seemed like a great way to feed the CAD. I blame the dealer for getting me hyped up on the 461. I am pretty sure he ordered it knowing he could hook me and sell it right off the delivery truck... I told him to stop leaving messages on my home answering machine before my wife catches on.
 
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