This 066 Grenaded........What The Hell Happened???????

[komatsuvarna]

Damn that big end bearing is toast!

IMO, they is no reason not to run 32:1 in any 2 stroke equipment. I've ran 32:1 in my stock and ported chainsaws, cutoff-demo saws, leaf blower, weed wackers, and wacker packers for a few years. Everything at home and at work gets 32:1 from the same jug.....probably burn close to 5 gallons a week combined. Never a oil related failure.

I've burn't almost 3 Liters of H1R, and 1 liter of Maxima K2 at 32:1. They're both clean burning good oil IMO.

 

[Fuzly]

True with nearly everything, no?

I have plugged this into many possible scenarios and you are 100% correct. To paraphrase Dean Wormer from Animal House "Black, dry, and crusty is no way to go through life son." Off to the store for more 2 stroke oil

 

[Lark-o]

I live in a world where drama ain't well tolerated......just sayin.

Im right there with ya on that one.

 

[HD2010]

The thing that's funny about this is I know quite a few grass guys use Sabre at 80:1 and even 100:1 in string trimmers and blowers in the heat of summer. Some have for a decade. I realize the stresses of a trimmer and a chainsaw are very different. But blowers come a bit closer with the constant load and prolonged WOT.

Is the power produced by this ported saw simply consuming the available lube? Was it tuned way lean too? I'm not sure I understand. As dry as the bottom end of that looks, it makes me wonder how other machines can run that mix seemingly without issue?

I think the important thing about this thread is high performance chainsaws need more oil than a stocker. We wanted everyone that didn't know this to be aware with proof. (If I am out of line Randy let me know.)

I have an 18 year old Echo trimmer with a good amount of use. Been running 80:1 from day one and not any problems. With this 066 bearing failure I have changed to 32:1 for everything. EVERYTHING.

 

[GrassGuerilla]

May I ask what octane fuel this was mixed with? Wouldnt pre-ignition contribute to such a failure? How high was the compression? What's the necessary octane level in such a beast?

Not trying to point fingers. Trying to grasp what took place in there.

 

[HD2010]

It's good insurance for you as an end user, and for me as an engine builder. When something like this happens, I feel like I should try to cover it, well in this case that cost me a nice 660 bottom end I was planning to build. I don't need a 660, but I could have sold it.....

If I put that disclaimer in my sig, maybe I won't feel as responsible.

Chances are, I'll still kick in at least the damn labor.....I hate seeing saws broked.

Randy, you are not obligated to pay for any of this. I am comfortable with what it takes to fix this saw. I do appreciate your loyalty to the customer and work.

Thanks again,
Troy

 

[HD2010]

92 or 93 some stations are different.

 

[The Ripper]

Back Packs and Trimmers work loads are far different than a chainsaws work demands at 10,000 plus RPMs where oil ratio is life or death for a chainsaw in suppling optimum oil for lubrication,heat dissipation and keeping the mixture on the rich side,IMO. I never allowed myself to swallow that marketing advertising BS that any mixture ratio above 50to1 wouldn't cause any internal damage when power tools where operated in extreme working conditions,regardless of their performance status. MasterMind,thanks for that tip on the racing oil,gonna give it a try at 32 to1.

 

[Mastermind]

May I ask what octane fuel this was mixed with? Wouldnt pre-ignition contribute to such a failure? How high was the compression? What's the necessary octane level in such a beast?

Not trying to point fingers. Trying to grasp what took place in there.

The 066s I do end up at 200 -210psi. They don't need any special fuel......just plenty of oil. Pre-ignition and detonation are very destructive, and it happens quick on a two-stroke. So far, I've never seen any detonation that I'm aware of. What I have seen when compression is too high, is the saw start acting as if it's running lean. What is happening that causes this above my pay grade......

Randy, you are not obligated to pay for any of this. I am comfortable with what it takes to fix this saw. I do appreciate your loyalty to the customer and work.

Thanks again,
Troy

A deal is a deal.......and I'm glad to do it. I didn't tell you to use any "special" blend or anything, so I feel like I should carry some of the repair.

 

[ernurse]

Scamsoil strikes again. I run ultra at 40:1 but now im going out tomorrow to get BR H1R. Sux I have about 4 gals of ultra/100LL mixed up but I will run it in the snow blower. The 441 runs great Randy. Thanks for this informative thread.

 

[blsnelling]

ernurse, there is nothing wrong with Amsoil. To the contrary, they make some of the finest lubricating products on the market. I'm sure their 2-stroke oil is no different. Now, as to their marketing.... I don't know what they're smoking, lol. Randy is dead right on the need for more oil. I recommend that all of my customers run at least 32:1, no less than 40:1, of a full-synthetic oil. I use Belray H1-R and Bailey's Full Synthetic myself. Both are fantastic products.

Good on ya Randy for stepping up and helping out...as you always do

 

[Philip Wheelock]

I can see where M-tronic/Autotune would come in handy here. No re-tuning. For my manual carb saws, I'm guessing that a 1/4 turn more (CCW) on the H screw from 50:1 tuning w/Stihl Ultra would be a good place to start when going to 40:1 w/ H1R on my stock saws? Got a Tiny Tach, which seems accurate enough. Another question: does Belray H1R contain a fuel stabilizer? Thanks.

 

[The Ripper]

The 066s I do end up at 200 -210psi. They don't need any special fuel......just plenty of oil. Pre-ignition and detonation are very destructive, and it happens quick on a two-stroke. So far, I've never seen any detonation that I'm aware of. What I have seen when compression is too high, is the saw start acting as if it's running lean. What is happening that causes this above my pay grade......

Randy,do you suppose with the extra amount of heat these performance saws are producing,even stock saws when pushed harder than normal usage,that some of the oil is being vaporized at a higher level or more oil is needed to help balance out the dissipation due the extra heat build up? Just throwing this out there.



A deal is a deal.......and I'm glad to do it. I didn't tell you to use any "special" blend or anything, so I feel like I should carry some of the repair.

 

[Mastermind]

Randy,do you suppose with the extra amount of heat these performance saws are producing,even stock saws when pushed harder than normal usage,that some of the oil is being vaporized at a higher level or more oil is needed to help balance out the dissipation due the extra heat build up? Just throwing this out there.

I'm not sure about what happens inside these engines. The more I learn the less I know.....

 

[komatsuvarna]

I think the ratio may be more important than the oil brand itself. I'm sure Amsoil is a good oil at 32-40:1... The same with all the other chainsaw oils too, no higher than 40:1. 32 for me .

 

[burnses]

I think the head broke off the screw holding the muffler to the cylinder as the left imprint from the screw looks to have carbon on it...The answer must be at the end of the post but haven't been there yet!

jim (sap can)

 

[RedFir Down]

I'm not sure about what happens inside these engines. The more I learn the less I know.....

I find this statement very true myself!!!
Thanks Randy for sharing your insight on using aftermarket cranks also.

 

[Mastermind]

I think the head broke off the screw holding the muffler to the cylinder as the left imprint from the screw looks to have carbon on it...The answer must be at the end of the post but haven't been there yet!

jim (sap can)

Keep reading Jim......

 

[burnses]

Keep reading Jim......

I know I did.....have to get back to work tonight however does shed some light on how good lead is as a lubricant...but can't argue the point of enough oil in the fuel....used to run 50-1 but going more oil lately.

jim out

 

[lone wolf]

Looks like the rod bearing fell apart that is a no brainer, question is exactly why! Was it due to improper lubrication, too much play from a previous loose bore where it rocked and then a new piston put in and then broke?