To all those that have white oaks...

[whitenack]

How much of an aggrivation is having their leaves fall in the spring?

Do you have to rake leaves twice a year? Obviously, it depends on how many white oaks you have in your yard, but if I had 1 or two, is there going to be cluttered with leaves in the spring, forcing another raking?

Thanks.

 

[Stumper]

Down Rocky! Down! Brian's point was about as subtle as a chainsaw but has merit. If you are obsessive about raking leaves then White oaks which hold the old leaves through he winter may be stressful to you. On the other hand, they are great trees and leaf raking is generally an environmentally frivolous activity. Trees are adapted to growing in soil which they mulch with their own leaves. Grass doesn't like being covered with leaves BUT grass and trees compete with one another. Plant White oaks. Mulch around them. Ignore the leaves.

 

[whitenack]

Squirrel, that is about the most idiotic thing I have ever heard. I don't know if you are always this combative or if you just had a bad day today, but you completely over-exaggerated my situation.

I was just asking about the amount of leaves white oaks put down in the spring, and if they were enough to kill the grass in my yard, and whether I would need to rake them. I understand that fallen leaves are important to the tree's health, but also know that everybody balances the health of their trees with the looks of their yard. If you can do both (have healthy trees and a good looking yard), why not?

I don't think my question insinuates any environmental irresponsibility or harm. You have no idea where I live, what kind of care I give my trees, or what I do with the leaves once they fall.

 

[geofore]

white oak

Oak hold some leaves till spring but instead of using the chainsaw buy a mulching mower and mulch the leaves back into the lawn. It is a hard sell on yuppies who like their lawns vacccumed and bagged so you'll need a leaf blower for thoses who insist on bagging the lawn. I'm not a lawn guy but that is a question more for ************, lawn guys ask me to do trees. I know some of their costomers swear it is better to vac and bag for the look and ask for fertiliser some are ok with mulch it. Chainsaws are a little different than lawn tools however most of the industry is making powerheads that trim hedges and do other stuff you end up with lots of attachments that don't cut trees. My vote is plant the white oak and if they live they should out live you and your kids.

 

[Stumper]

Whitenack, It turns out that Brian DID have a rather bad day today. Personaly I think that the oaks would be worth the clean up. How much you would have to rake or mulch with the mower will depend upon location and local wind patterns. It won't amount to much for quite a few years in any case.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Whitenack,

Brian has taken on the role of AS Grump lately. If you can filter out his message and ignore the volume, he has an opinion that has some validity. Look at the book, not the cover.

Here in Minneapolis, the white oaks are generally mature or under five inch stock. Not much in between. The yards that have large white oaks have a layer of leaves in the spring. They do go through a mulching mower just fine. The window of time that the leaves are around is larger than say a silver maple. I've seen SM go from green leaves to gold, beautiful leaves to dropping ALL leaves within three days. Not so with white oaks. The fall leaf drop can be a few weeks long. Then some blow off during the winter. Then again in the spring. Its the price we pay for enjoying such a wonderful tree.

Tom

 

[whitenack]

Rocky,

I appreciate your passion for trees. Trust that I would not be a member of this website if I didn't have the same feelings. In other words, if I was the evil tree killer you believe me to be then I would not be here seeking your alls advice. I would just get the tree and if it didn't suit I would trim, prune or chop it down like you say I am going to.

Your interpretation of my post IS inaccurate.

You don't know me. Don't group me in with the customers you have dealt with. I grew up in an old farm house which had 6 or 7 fully matured silver maple trees in our yard. They towered over our two story house and we enjoyed their beauty and shade. I know first hand at the work it takes to care for such giants. Not only did they drop plenty of leaves but we had several big limbs fall on our house and in our yard due to windstorms. We knew, however, that it was worth the risk and effort to have such a cool and shady place to live.

I have since grown up and moved away from home. Now, would I plant silver maples at my new house? No. Why, because I don't like to rake their leaves? No. Because I don't like the soft wood. Does that make me a tree hater. No.

I am trying to get all the information about trees that I can, so I don't make a mistake and put a tree in that I will not like. Reason being, I am not the guy you think I am and I would not cut it down or prune or anything. I would stick it out and live with a tree that I don't like because some yahoo didn't give me good advice about it!!

I would like to plant all bur oaks in my yard, because that seems to fit the type of tree I like best, plus I can easily grow them free from acorn. However, I would like to have SOME variety in my yard for disease protection and appearance, so I have thought about the white oak (again free and easy acquisition).

Thats way more information than I had wanted to share with you guys, but you asked for it!

 

[whitenack]

Tom,

Thanks for the info. That is what I was looking for.

I don't mind the slow drop. Just the thought of having to go through 2 seasons of leaf drop like the leaf drop we got back home with the silver maples would be torture.

ps. By 2 seasons of leaf drop I mean leaf drop from my bur oaks in the fall and then leaf drop by the whites in the spring.

 

[Stumper]

Whitenack. Burr oaks typically hold there leaves as well-they are a "white" oak. They are also a marvelous tree. Your idea of not putting in all one variety is very wise. I would suggest that you move to an entirely different genus. Burr oaks and pines or lindens or fruit trees or Sugar maples or ash or.... You get the idea. The variety not only looks better than a monoculture but lowers your risk of a devastating disease problem at some point in the future.

 

[M.D. Vaden]

Do you have Scarlet Oak there?

Those are sold in Oregon.

They are almost identical to a Pin Oak, only the Scarlets loose the leaves in autumn here ( again, here - Oregon).

I probably could not tell one from the other by the leaf. I'd have to go in the nursery in December to know for sure.

It seems that the Pin Oak leaves have a miniature filiment type lobe tip, which Scarlet Oak may not have.

 

[whitenack]

I have been told that burrs drop their leaves in the fall. That is incorrect?

 

[geofore]

maple

The silver maple drop seeds in the spring and leaves in the fall around here. Ash drop little limbs in the spring and fall but big enough the mowwer won't mulch them as the trees mature, the shade they provide is worth the clean up. Visit a large cemetery, they normally have large selection of trees and ask if you can gather seeds from the trees you like when they drop if cost is an issue. Ask the grounds keeper about the trees, he should know what they do and when if he is any good at his job. Information can come from people other than AS forum but you have to get out there and look for it.

 

[wysiwyg]

Our mature Burr's normally hold their leaves until November- early December. I would expect the drop to be a little earlier this year because we are about 9 inches short of rainfall.

 

[whitenack]

Another white oak question

Went and checked on my white oak I planted in the cemetery many years ago. It is not very old, maybe 15-20 feet tall. Old enough to produce acorns though. I noticed when I went to check on it that there was a huge swarm of flies and huge wasps buzzing around the acorns. So much so that it was difficult to get close. The oak had already dropped some acorns, which I thought was a little too early. There didn't seem to be any harm done, the leaves looked healthy, but I am worried that this may be a problem I should investigate.

There is a bur oak beside it, same size, same planting age, with no acorn production and no insect infestation.

Any thoughts?

I might be able to get pictures of the tree, acorns, and wasps if you think it is necessary.

 

[whitenack]

Upon closer inspection, the wasps are not collecting around the acorns, but around some cyst-like growth. It matches the descriptions I read about galls. I have included some pictures just to make sure.

 

[geofore]

galls

Great picture of the galls, I have found them in an Elm tree here, young tree like your oak, they left the bigger, older trees alone. I open a gall every other day to watch their progress. 2-3 bugs in each one, they are now changing color from nearly tranparent to brown and black tips or edges, still young. You need a magnifying glass to get a good look at them now. They will be bigger in a week or so and ready to leave the galls. Forgotten their name.

 

[whitenack]

Are the wasps and flies just a coincidence, or are they a by-product or a preditor of the galls?

 

[syncom2]

Whitenack,
In getting back to your original voiced concern - with the Spring leaf drop from the White Oaks, I personally don’t find that being a problem for my country located lawn, which is located in Southwest quadrant of Ohio. But then again, maybe I’m too lazy to find it being a big ‘nough concern to have them manually removed? I dunno??? The main reason I leave mine lay is ‘cos within a couple of mowings, which happens with great frequency in the early Springtime months, those leaves that haven’t already been blown out of the county by the strong Springtime winds will have been chopped to smithereens by mid-April. In the late Fall, when I don’t have many mowings... you know, when I can't do much mow-mulching of the leaves, then getting any matted layers of leaves off the turf is of greater importance to me.
I don’t know about the others folks here on this forum, but my Bur Oak tree sheds its complete coat in the Fall. Likewise does my Shingle oak and most of the Red Oak’s leaves will drop in the Fall season as well. The White Swamp Oak and the Pin Oak will keep the majority of their leaves until early Spring. Those, especially the Pin’s leaves… tend to mulch much more readily than the tougher White Oak’s.
So anyway, that’s been my experience from this corner of the world.
mb

 

[Treeman14]

Originally posted by whitenack
Are the wasps and flies just a coincidence, or are they a by-product or a preditor of the galls?

The wasps are the cause of the galls.

http://www.uky.edu/Agriculture/Entomology/entfacts/trees/ef408.htm

 

[geofore]

wasps/flies

To address the flies, they came to see if that which smelled, the wasps haching out was good to dine on. The galls once opened smell good to the flies.