to clear the air a bit....

[kf_tree]

by me there is only one tree svc that does not spike on prunings. but he doesn't even do half of what my business did a year. i'm paid to produce. i would like nothing better than to do nothing but removals. you never get a complaint on removals only prune jobs. last week in 6 days we did $30,000.00, that would not have been possible if we did not spike prune jobs. i used to try and talk people out of topping tree's. if i had to i would try and pick a nice height where i could hide the cuts and still keep a nice shape. they would always say i want it lower. so now i cut til they scream stop, or i ask them to give me a height they want it at. working in brooklyn were forced to butcher tree's. fence lineing over pools or property. brooklyn has a very large jewish population. for 2 weeks they pray in a sukkath. there can be no branch's over the sukkath so they could have a clear view to god. then you ask your self did god want tree's to look like this? did you guys ever buy a tree for a dollar? jews cant cut down fruit tree's. so we buy them for a dollar , then they say how much to get your tree off my property. if you guys don't spike and try and do nice work hey thats great. but its tough when theres a big oak in a 20x30 yard that over hangs 3 yards in every direction. how do you clear a yard and not harm the tree? you own from the property line to sky. its the law if you want to cut the tree back to clear a property. for me spikes are all about speed. i don't claim to be the best climber out there, but i'd challenge any one who thinks they could get up and limb walk a tree with out spike faster than me with spikes. the only time i do not spike is on city tree's or some small ornamental tree's like jap maples etc. if i tried to be the informative tree man and educate customers and climb with out spikes i'd starve in this area. 99% of the customers only care about the bottom line$$$$$. i recently was asked by a customer not to spike her tree on a small 350 job. i told her fine but the price would be double because of the time. she said spike away.

 

[Treeman14]

Hmmm, reminds me of a story:

Guy goes to the doctor complaining of stomach cramps. Doc examines him and prescribes some extra-strength antacid and changes to his diet. Guy insists its appendicitis(family history) and demands to have his appendix removed. Doc finally gives in and sends him to surgery. Guy dies after complications, turns out his appendix was fine after all. Doc's diagnosis was right. So, its not the doctor's fault, right? After all, the guy insisted and its his body anyway.



Maybe when we professionals start getting sued for malpractice, we'll wise up.

Yo!Brooklyn, at least now we know where your priorities lie. I admire your honesty, but I think your going to be raked over the coals for this.

 

[kf_tree]

as long as the doc got paid before surgury i see no problem with that.

 

[Treeman14]

I thought not.

 

[treeman82]

Brooklyn! If you are working in areas other than Manhattan (excluding most of Harlem) / Long Island / and some other nice areas I can understand where you may be coming from. However in the areas where an appartment costs over $1,000,000 I would think that your way of doing things wouldn't go over too well. There is big $$$ in doing tree work in the city. Several very reputable companies do work down there and do it the right way, they make plenty of money and do it in a fair amount of time.
For you guys who are not from the area...
Tree up here value to remove: $500?
Down in the city, same tree: $3,000 and up.

As far as the jewish thing goes.. I am going to turn a deaf ear to that.

 

[kf_tree]

tomorrow i'll be in manhattan clearing tree's for a satellite dish. does that sound like its the correct thing to do? i say just put the dish higher but i guess i'l be topping a bunch of tree's in the am. as far as the jewish thing i said nothing negative or anti semetic. its just the reality i work in. i have no predudice's, my wife is half jewish. most of our work in manhattan is removal work which suits me fine. if it could be reached with a bucket i'm fine staying on the ground and leting our resident certfied arborist do the pick and peck crap. but if theres any rigging involved in the bucket i go.the last job i did in manhattan was 4500,00 for 3 removals with stumps. i left staten island at about 7:30 made it to the job and had the 3 tree's down by 9:30. i even picked up a 1500.00 job and had that on the groung by 11:30. the prices in manhattan are great. i then had a 300.00 job in brooklyn. i was still home by 3:00. my boss was so happy he doubled my pay for the day.

 

[greenguy]

I do not know what planet you are from but try that in atlanta the city will fine your a$$ out of business for improper working practices. I would race you up around and down a tree. How long have you been doing tree work ikt does not sound like very long.

 

[kf_tree]

your right green guy, i'm just a little boy trying to make it in a mans world. i guess you found me out. but with the money you guys make down south i plan on getting out of tree work when i move to ga. so i guess the live oaks can breathe easy.

 

[o0_TreeMan_0o]

 

[Toddppm]

I can see that it's not your call what kind of work you're doing but what's up with the owner? How the freak can there be so many dumb customers out there?

I get tired of the telling same old speil too, did it twice today alone. Hopefully they'll see the light , if they don't oh well.

Since you brought it up , how many men did it take to bring in that $$?

I think I need to raise my rates again.......

 

[kf_tree]

for the 30.000 in 6 days. 2 climbers i'm just a b climber compared to the other guy. i worked 5 days for him the other climber worked 4 days. one good ground man and saw man. plus 5 other ground men and 1 more guy doing stumps. it was just a killer week. we go out as one big crew instead of splitting up. we just blow through jobs with a big crew.

 

[DDM]

Todd, They have apparently all read McPeaks Web Site!

 

[kf_tree]

like i said before of the aprox 30 tree svc i know of in my area only one does not spike. there is no talent on his crew because no one will climb for him. plus he's not much a climber himself. around here most tree svc owners know squat about tree's. theres alot of owner non climbers.

 

[kf_tree]

whats McPeaks?

 

[treeclimber165]

spike-it

read the thread titled 'whats wrong with this company'. There's a link in there to McPeak's website.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

There are a lot of industries where the contractors make a killing doing substandard work.
Right now they have a thing in the news every few days about air conditioner repairmen, and all their tricks. For example, they showed the guy who was called to service the air conditioner, take the cover off, stand around for 10 minutes, pee on the unit, then befores he leaves, he goes in the basement, disables a small part in the furnace, and puts his sticker on the furnace so they call him back on the first cold day. Then in the fall visit, he disables the A/C!
Anyway, the guys are making money hand over fist.
Of the ten guys called, 8 of them were theives, so it's OK.

 

[trees4life]

The industry is changing (thankfully). It is fairly well known around here that spikes are for removals only, although I know some companies do use them for prunings. A number of companies are trying to educate the clients about proper tree care. Some companies refuse to remove healthy trees. These people are extremely busy, so it has not hurt their business one bit. They have become very well known as being care givers for trees, and working in a way to benefit the community. They will only prune for tree health & public/property safety, which is considered 'good arboriculture practices' by the municipality. More companies are taking the same stand, and many benefit as a result.

People have to start to understand that just because the stem of a tree stands on their property, the entire community benefits.

On the other hand, a number of companies don't mind topping, or selling long term maintenance packages, since it means more money over the long term. Sometimes trees should just be removed. Whenever someone suggests topping, I tell them they may as well remove the entire tree & be done with it.

 

[murphy4trees]

Every once in a while I wish I could use spikes to prune but for most trees I can get around just fine without. I don't always use them on removals either, for the same reason. I probably could use a better set for comfort though.
Sounds to me like your relying on spikes (and bucket truck) has hindered your development as a climber. There could be a world of fun and climbing expertise beyond those spikes.
So what else are you using?
Do you use a ladder and pole saw, throwing ball, big shot, taut line ..blake.. or advanced friction hitch, micro pulley, rigging pulley, ascenders, foot locking, and lowering device. Etc
How do you move around in a tree?
Plan routes, double tie ins, etc
What kind of cuts do you make?
Target prune, open face notches, snap cuts etc
How were you trained?
Do you read books and go take courses or training seminars?
(At least you care enough to be on this site)
Have you ever seen a top class climber work a tree?
Believe me.. these guys don't need spikes.
I ask this 'cause I want to understand. When I walk up to a beautiful full oak and see those spike marks (starting at the ground), it breaks my heart. I really feel sad for the tree. And then anger.. these guys don't even have the decency to bring a ladder and spare the first 25' of trunk.
I've cut a lot of trees down with no other sign of problem than an old set of gaff marks or two. Think about what it takes for that tree to compartmentalize off all those wounds and how much that must disturb the tree's uptake of nutrients and energy storing system.
Anybody know if Shigo has done tree dissections to determine compartmentalization in spiked trees?
So thank you all for letting me get this out.
God Bless All,
Daniel
PS what are you doing about the Asian long horned beetle quarantine? I was reading about that last night on a site found through the ISA website.

 

[City climber]

Spiking trees & Asian longhorned beetle

As for spiking trees 90% of the trees we do in N.Y. and surrounding areas are removals .and of those a large percentage are dead. We do very little fine pruning, it is not what the customer wants. Your either asked to top a tree or fence line it you can explain to the customer reasons for not doing it. Bottom line is someone will do it even if you don't. As for the Asian beetle they have several sites in and aruund the city that are quarantined.No tree work is allowed to be done unless someone in your crew has taken arequired course. and all debris must be chipped and destroyed (burned). So far they seem to have the situation under control.

 

[Greg]

Spike, you offered to race someone around the tree, I think you'd loose.
While you are working your way up the 20ft trunk of the tree, and then working your way out onto the 30ft long latteral branch of that live oak..... I'd bet that at best by the time you get there you are huffing and puffing, and about 10 minutes would have passed. Contrast that with:
Throwing a throw bag right over the target branch, (if one above is avail that would be even better) install the climbing line with a friction saver (we are now 3mins into the race). Then me footlocking (I am a slow footlocker) the 20ft in less than 1 minute. I am sitting on that branch, not at all fatigued, in under 5 minutes. and I bet from a safty perspective I am much better off. I know very few spike climbers that are "always" tied in.
Also, I bet if you are a goof limbwalker with the spikes, that without them you would be flying across the limb.
---Not that you would, but don't let all of the heat from the spike issue run you out of here, I think you add a lot of value to discussions.

--An observation-- I don't know any spike climbers who also climb for recreation. Start playing with ropes and knots during your off time, you'll probably find it fun, and within a short period of time you'll find yourself doing it on the job.

Greg