Topping for removal

[treemandan]

I wasn't even paying attention, book em Blake-o. But if you are up there on thin dia conifer and feel a well placed stub will help to steady a spiked foot that is a good idea.

 

[Blakesmaster]

I wasn't even paying attention, book em Blake-o. But if you are up there on thin dia conifer and feel a well placed stub will help to steady a spiked foot that is a good idea.

That's how I know your a tree man, dan. lol Of course a nub or two in your work area is handy when blowing out a top, especially if you might take the aforementioned ride. But below you...well you saw what happened on that tulip because I didn't want to bring up a big saw to flush it off.

 

[treemandan]

That's how I know your a tree man, dan. lol Of course a nub or two in your work area is handy when blowing out a top, especially if you might take the aforementioned ride. But below you...well you saw what happened on that tulip because I didn't want to bring up a big saw to flush it off.

Feel up to spiking around on 6 inch dia tulip poplar? Not me.

 

[Blakesmaster]

Feel up to spiking around on 6 inch dia tulip poplar? Not me.

I'd need my man suit, but I'm sure it's lying around here somewhere.

 

[tree md]

I couldn't agree with you more Blakes. Sure, if you need a stub to steady your foot fine (However, I would rather just stand in my spurs). I will sometimes leave stubs to hang a sling or even use to lower a limb, top or myself from but leaving stubs all the way up the tree is the hallmark of an amateur. It didn't take but one time for me to have to spike down and free up a snagged limb and I learned that lesson.

Dynamic rope is ideal for lowering and rigging but rock climbing ropes and gear are not recommended for arborist applications. They are usually lighter weight gear and do not have the same tolerances in many cases. Use arborist ropes that meet our industry standards.

Personally, I don't want to use rock climbers for groundies in my rigging operations. I want to use experienced tree hands that I have preferably trained myself. Because they know the art of how to let the ropes run and braking that is only learned by hands on tree rigging experience.

Not calling you out in no way. You have some good advice. But this is arborist 101 and truth needs to be spoken here.

 

[Blakesmaster]

Personally, I don't want to use rock climbers for groundies in my rigging operations. I want to use experienced tree hands that I have preferably trained myself. Because they know the art of how to let the ropes run and braking that is only learned by hands on tree rigging experience.

.

It's interesting. Rock climbers know their knots. Eric's an ex rocky that moved to trees but when it comes to rigging it's a new world for him. He teaches rec tree climbing at the local university and knows his #### in that aspect. However, he's hard headed, like me, and...well...basically like every other tree guy I ever met and thinks he has it handled. Approaching proper rigging and lowering techniques with him is touchy to say the least. He's coming around though. Having him down with Dano was a good experience, he shoots his #### straight, and I'd like to get him around a few other production companies to learn some new tricks, but back to my point...which was agreeing with you. People with knowledge of ropes and knots and climbing can be extremely useful but you need to find a way to teach them the intricacies of our industry. And that can be hard to do.

 

[flushcut]

This is kind of funny to me because when I quit rock climbing (11 years ago)the fad was letting the lead climber run as they were falling to lessen the dynamic forces on the pro. I helped a friend teach rock climbing at his climbing gym for four years and that was the teaching method we used for the lead climbing belay.

I wonder why the rope manufactures don't make a rope that is just as dynamic as the rock climbing lines. I know about polydyne and the like but they are no were near as dynamic. Rock climbing lines I know that they have breaking strengths in the several thousands of lbs and have a minimum number of 6 meter drop test with a 186lb dead weight and that's for life line support not wood. ( details could be a little fuzzy it has been awhile but I think I am close)
I am not saying they should be used for tree work but if they made a line that was that dynamic and tree care worthy that might be something. IMO
It could be called the Slims Top Dropper

 

[pdqdl]

I guess my question Tree MD is how to avoid such a violent shaking up top, when the top starts to go down, know what i mean?? Probably shorter pieces up top so there isn't so much weight pushing on the top of the spar?

Strip the branches from the side of the tree you are sending the wood down. Leave a lot of branches on the "unused" side of the tree, but not so many that it will be a problem lowering them later.

Don't worry about shaking the tree. The remaining branches that you left on the tree will act as a shock absorber, damping all the motion. The higher they are, especially if they are 90° from your falling top, the better they will slow down the ride.

Send down the branches on the other side as you come down, having sent down the top already.

 

[mic687]

This may have been mentioned already but why not vertical speed line it which is about the same as letting it run to the ground. On these I like to finish my cut with my hand saw so I am sure I am hanging on when it goes.

 

[JeffL]

Feel up to spiking around on 6 inch dia tulip poplar? Not me.

I did some lightning systems a few weeks back in a few 100-110' tulips. If I put my hands up I was no more than 8' from the tips on 3-4" stuff. And yes, I was ####ting my pants.

 

[sgreanbeans]

GOOD STUFF, GOOD STUFF. Rig it, tie it, cut it, ride it. Sometimes ur gonna go for a ride, try and enjoy the adrenaline! I don't think you'll get to much of a sway from that one. But as said before on this post, Im not there. If it don't feel right, don't do it.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Strip the branches from the side of the tree you are sending the wood down. Leave a lot of branches on the "unused" side of the tree, but not so many that it will be a problem lowering them later.

Don't worry about shaking the tree. The remaining branches that you left on the tree will act as a shock absorber, damping all the motion. The higher they are, especially if they are 90° from your falling top, the better they will slow down the ride.

I use mass dampening frequently on removals, I am convinced that leaving the top on a spar will help dampen the load more then topping increase working load levels. Having the top takes force of the entire tree.

 

[Lawnmowerboy48]

Get a groundie who can run rope and there should be no more shaking than when the top first left.

 

[pdqdl]

That simply isn't true.

When the top is cut out of a tree, it pushes sideways against the standing trunk. NOTHING the groundman can do will prevent that.

When the rope drows tight from the falling top, it can augment ("add to") the motion, or reduce the motion, purely according to luck. Obviously, if the groundie skillfully makes that a slow change, it will tend to reduce the effects.

When the falling top lands against the trunk, you once again are subject to luck. The motion of the top banging against the trunk can either add to, or detract from, the swaying of the standing spar, depending only on which way the trunk is moving when it hits the fallen top. The groundie can help reduce the severity of the blow, but the timing is all luck or skill, according to how the climber cut it off. Logs tend to have a much greater effect than brushy tops.

There are three different motions that affect the climbers ride, and only two of them are partly controlled by the groundman. Even with the best rope-run a groundie can deliver, harmonic motion effects can still add up to giving the climber a hell of a ride, particularly on a tall thin spar.

Leaving some branches at the top will always "damp" the additive effects from all three motions.

 

[tree md]

Tall thin tops can really give you one hell of a ride as PDQL says. Especially on evergreens. I have taken many a hell ride... I lovem.

I about bit off more than I could chew on this one. My first spar cut was a 10 or 12 footer. It nearly shook me loose. I dug my spurs in and rode that sucker like a fat girl on prom night... The HO was watching and said it was a good thing that I kept myself tied into the tree while I cut. He went inside after that one. Said he's seen enough.

 

[pdqdl]

You sure put a lot of turns in your timber hitch!

I don't even begin to put turns in mine until I am well around the backside of the tree. It might just be my impatience to get it tied, but I haven't dropped one yet.

 

[tree md]

You sure put a lot of turns in your timber hitch!

I don't even begin to put turns in mine until I am well around the backside of the tree. It might just be my impatience to get it tied, but I haven't dropped one yet.

I will normally double my sling, put enough twists in it to get close to the diameter I need, drop my block through the end loop around the spar. It's not that I need that many twists, it's more of a shortcut I take when tying the knot and taking up the slack I need as I do so.

 

[pdqdl]

Hmmm...

I never thought of doing it that way. I'll have to try that someday.

 

[treeclimber101]

Tall thin tops can really give you one hell of a ride as PDQL says. Especially on evergreens. I have taken many a hell ride... I lovem.

I about bit off more than I could chew on this one. My first spar cut was a 10 or 12 footer. It nearly shook me loose. I dug my spurs in and rode that sucker like a fat girl on prom night... The HO was watching and said it was a good thing that I kept myself tied into the tree while I cut. He went inside after that one. Said he's seen enough.

Cheezus heist your big enough to rip that tree outta the ground , I guess you do have moderate trouble with small tops the tree doesn't stand a chance..

 

[tree md]

230 pounds of dynamite with an 8 inch fuse...

:hmm3grin2orange: