Trailer options

[fields_mj]

I'm kicking around the idea of building a trailer this summer. I recently bought a well used home made 4x8 trailer to pull behind both the truck and ATV. After getting it home, and looking it over more, I don't think I'll be using it nearly as much as I had originally hoped too. I only gave $100 for it, and there's that much on it in steel, so I'm not disappointed, but I'm thinking I may completely re-do it. I'd like to build a trailer to have a 4x8 deck so that it's not much wider than my ATV. That will make it easier to pull through the woods to where the firewood is. I'll also use it to haul the ATV too and from the woods. So far, that's pretty simple. Now for the tricky part. I'd really like to build the deck and tongue so that it would take 4000 lb of weight (fire wood). I plan on using the existing axle at this point (which would limit me to about 1000 lbs), but down the road if I want to upgrade I would prefer to just cut the axle off, and put a 5000 lb axle under it (with a break). That way if I wanted to use it to haul firewood 50 miles from my folks place I could. I don't like having to drive that far for just one truck load, even when I'm going to be up that way anyway. Adding a second truck load in the trailer would change that drastically. So I would like to keep that option open down the road. I don't want to make the trailer so heavy, that my ATV has a hard time pulling it. The ATV is only rated to pull 900 pounds. Most of that is probably because its tongue will only take 90 lbs. I think if I stack my wood on the back edge of the axle, it will do fine. If not, I'll hill billy the ATV up (some more) so that I can pull more with it.

Here's what I have that I plan on re-using from the existing trailer. 2 I beams 6' long, 4" tall. These would be trimmed down and used for the front and rear frames. 1 C channel 6' long, 5" tall. Could be laid on it's side and used as a cross member in the center of the deck. As I said above, I will be re-using the existing axle for now as I don't currently need to haul firewood that far (about 10 miles), so one truck load at a time is fine. The immediate use of the trailer will be to transport the ATV and to haul about 1000 lbs of wood at a time, up to a mile back to the truck.

Here's what I would plan on buying. Two 8 ft pieces of material for the sides of the frame. Additional material for cross members. Material for a new tongue. Lumber for decking.

Here are my questions.

What should I use for the sides of the frame? I'm leaning towards some 4" standard C channel. It's the #5.4 size which measures 4x1.5x3/16. This would match the 4" I beams that I plan on using for the front and back of the frame. Would this be strong enough to make a 4x8 frame to haul roughly a cord of wood in (4,500 lb) if I build 4' side panels? I probably won't build them quite that high, but I'd still like the frame to support #4,500.

Next question, if my decking is treated 5/4" deck boards, would it be okay if my cross members were 16" on center? I'm thinking that I'm going to use the 3" C channel for this. It is a #4.1 and measures 3x1.375x3/16. I figure that should tuck up into the 4" channel nicely. Looks like most manufactured trailers use 2x3x3/16 angle, so I'm thinking this C channel would be a LOT stronger than that.

Last question would be the tongue. I would plan on welding up an A frame tongue, but I'm not sure what size material to use. Again, I'm thinking that I'd buy C channel. Would the 4" channel that I want to use for the frame sides be plenty, or should I up grade to the next size thicker 4" channel (#7.25), or even up to a 5" channel? Not sure what to do here. At the end of the day, I will have a 2" ball that I pull it with, but I'm just not sure what to use for the A frame. Suggestions?

Let the flaming begin....

Thanks,
Mark

 

[cuttingintime]

I can tell you what my experience have been. First off I use a 5 by 8 with a 3500 pound axle 16" sides. I have a yamaha 700 with 4 wheel drive. Before that had yamaha 400 big bear with 4 wheel drive. I bring this up simply because the 400 would pull better than 700 because the later has a belt drive. If I could do over would bought 500 Honda with gears. If I load the trailer just slight above sides with hard wood on hilly ground very difficult to pull with ATV. My brother in law has a 4 wheel drive gator, we have to put in low for some hills.

 

[tex]

My first thought is that you are going to overbuild your trailer. The amount of iron your talking about using will more than hold the load you want, but the trailer itself will be very heavy too. 4 wheelers are limited by their traction...ie they don't weigh much, and will spin the tires with too much load. If your trailer ends up weighing a couple thousand pounds, your 4 wheeler will work hard to move it empty.

Second thought, why not buy or build a trailer made from an old 1 ton truck box/frame. Its ready to go with stake sides in the pockets. They already have brakes built in too that could be hooked up to a surge brake coupler from an old camper or boat trailer. No electric required...meaning the trailer brakes work when hooked to a quad or tractor also.

Third thought, 4500lb on a 4x8 trailer? Really? I don't think you'll find an axle to fit. Doesn't a cord of "green" red oak weigh about 3300lb. Doesn't seem like you'd need that much capacity on your trailer.

Not trying to shoot anything down, just giving my 2 cents. If you are looking for a project, sounds like you are on the right track with your frame ideas. Make the steel for the tounge match the frame, and you should be ok as long as your weight is distributed correctly. I'd go 24 inch centers on your cross beams to save some weight and money. It will still be built like a brick out-house.

 

[fields_mj]

My ATV is an '03 400 big bear 4x4. It has done a good job for me at pulling logs out of a ravine, but it certainly has it's limits for traction. I normally cheat a little, and stack a few pieces of firewood on the rear rack for added weight/traction.

The #4500 is just an extreme example, but point well taken. I'm trying to keep the trailer as light as possible for the ATV. Near as I can figure, with the numbers I gave, and not including the axle, the trailer would weight about #400. I'm confident that the ATV could pull #1000 of firewood out of a ravine on a wheeled trailer so long as I used some common sense about how steep the grade is.

Up at my folks, it's mostly hickory, and I have a buddy up there that has a LOT of hedge that he would like to have taken out. So that was another reason for going a little bigger on the max size axle. Even still, if I drop the sides down to 3' so that I get 3/4 cord on it, that's equivalent to a decent truck load, and would make the trip a lot more worth while. I was mainly concerned about the strength of the trailer. It's been 15 years since I took my Mech of Materials classes, and lost all my reference books in a flooded basement a few years back. Sounds like it will be fine. Maybe I will down grade some of it to 3" C Channel and save a little more $$ and weight.

Thanks!
Mark

 

[KD57]

I think you are overbuilding it too. From my experience with building trailers and pulling them with 4 wheelers, it needs to be light. Mine is a 4x8, built with angle for the frame, and a 3x3x1/4 tube for the tongue. I have a 2000 lb axle cut down to match the track width of a 4 ft wide trailer, and spaced to carry the load while limiting the tongue weight as much as possible. ATV's don't like a lot of tongue weight, most will bend if very heavy.

I have a 2010 Polaris 550 X2. I think it is rated for 1100 lbs on flat ground, and 850 up a 15 degree grade. Even in 4x4, traction is the problem here. When I load it to 1000 lbs, it becomes difficult to pull over anything but smooth ground.
The 550 has way more than enough power, but traction goes south in a hurry, at least in the terrain I use it in.
So what I am saying, building a heavy trailer to haul a lot of wood in is great, but don't expect it to be pulled by an ATV over very rough terrain.

 

[fields_mj]

Sounds like I should be asking another question. Would it be possible to build a trailer that would be capable of hauling over 3,000 lbs of fire wood AND still be light enough to use with an ATV to haul 800+ pounds of fire wood out of a ravine.

I"ll give a littel more background here. The woods that I do most of my cutting in is about 10 miles from the house. This winter it was logged. Not cleared out, just logged. The entire farm is in a forrest management program with a local lumber company, so everything that used to be open pasture has now been planted in timber, and those plantations are now about 10'~20' tall and up to about 3" across. The mature lumber is located in 2 large ravines that occupy about 75 acres of the property. The loggers did not, and are not doing anything with the tree tops. The skidder has cleared/dozed a path that gets me pretty close to most of the tree tops with an ATV and trailer, but the terrain will not permit me to get the truck any where within 100 yards of most of them. So my primary goal for the trailer right now is to use it to transport the wood from where it's at (skidder path) to the truck. With the ground being soft like it is now, the truck will likely be about a mile away near the high way. If it takes me 5 or 6 trips to fill an 8' truck bed, that's fine.

If this is possible, what size channel would you guys recommend for the frame and cross members?

 

[KD57]

Yes, better question. I had a long winded post, but lost it when I had to log back in, and forgot to copy it. Anyway,I have that also, a 5x10, with 3500# axle. It has 4" channel for the frame, 3" channel cross members 24" on center, with the perimeter channel continous up to the point the coupler is welded on. The ATV pulls it well, as long as it's not overloaded. When I have it full, I have to pull it with the truck or tractor. I can move it easily by hand, I have it balanced well, with very little tongue weight.

 

[Alaskat]

I have to chain up my 700 to haul wood up hilly terrain, mostly I use it to bring wood down the mountain which really helps. My current site I am able to use the big ATV and a trailer to haul out logs. One mans hill is anothers speed bump so your terrain is gonna determine what your rig can handle. Smaller loads may save in the long run you gotta go out and do some trial and error.View attachment 175649View attachment 175648

 

[fields_mj]

If I made the frame and cross members out of 3" channel, what kind of load could I exect it to support?

I'm looking at what I can get 3" channel for vs 4" channel, and I'm wondering what I'm getting for an extra $55 worth of steel. On one hand $55 isn't that much in the long run. On the other hand, by the time I buy a new hitch, lumber for the deck, and the welding rod, the 3" channel will put me towards the top end of what my budget was going to be. I'm wondering if it would be better if I just waited another month and saved up the extra $55.

 

[Iska3]

When I made my first wood trailer, I used three cross members from some storage racks. I cut off the ends of the two at 45 degrees and cut the last one in half and at 45 degrees. I welded the ends to make a 4x8 frame. The axel was made from a 3 inch dia steel steam pipe welded to two front hubs from a 69 ford. The tongue is made from a second section of pipe. The cross members allowed me to build a bed from 2 inch rough cut oak that falls in to the groves and later covered it with scrap plywood.

The trailer is light enough to pull with my wheeler when I have on ¾ cord of green oak. The key is to keep the trailer well balanced so you don’t overload the tongue. At times I think I could even pull more but trying to stop is another trick even with the 800.

Think about looking in to some cross members from industrial type storage racks. Most are strong enough to hold move weight then you could ever pull and light enough to make a trailer for the ATV.

 

[TMFARM 2009]

i personally would use square tube.. it will reduce weight and do just as good.. dont know on pricing what differences would be... also have you priced a tsc trailer? i have used them before if you buy one of them without the floor and add your own floor you may come out cheaper..what general area of Indiana are you?

 

[fields_mj]

i personally would use square tube.. it will reduce weight and do just as good.. dont know on pricing what differences would be... also have you priced a tsc trailer? i have used them before if you buy one of them without the floor and add your own floor you may come out cheaper..what general area of Indiana are you?

I live on the edge of Brazil IN. The TSC trailer isn't a bad idea, but for what it is, I can build it for about half that. Especially since I already have an axle.

I thought about square tubing, but dollar for dollar it is noticeably more expensive than channel. An 8' piece of 3" channel is about $40, an 8' piece of 4" channel is $50, and an 8' piece of 2" square tubing, 3/16 thick is $60. The tubing is stiffer than the same size of channel, but I don't thing that the 2" tubing would be any stiffer than 4" channel.

I think I'm going to get two 20' sticks of 3" channel and use the existing axle. I'm going to focus on my goal of having a trailer to haul the ATV with, and to haul through the woods. When its time to get a trailer to haul firewood with behind the truck, I think I'll build a 5'6" x 8' trailer and find a used heavy duty axle to go with it. That way it would be big enough for me to get my lawn mower on (60" deck). I can build it beefy so that it can handle a full cord. My ol 7.3 IDI shouldn't have a problem pulling it

 

[TMFARM 2009]

i was curious if you where cutting some of the woods i have been on...they have logged four different tracts around here. i have access on two for summer cutting...but the one guy has four guys cutting,, was just curious if you was around here or not.. but your not close..i am east of richmond.about twelve miles,north seven..approx.
anyhow the rodeo shop sells some nice small trailers,maybe too far to drive for ya though.
yep your right on the 3" channel if you do the whole frame with that it should lighten it enough.

 

[fields_mj]

There are a few guys who cut on this farm also. I normally don't cut until December, and by then I'm left with the stuff that is too big for anyone else to cut. This year, the weather and family have kept the saws in the garadge all winter, so I'm going to try to do some this spring/summer. I've got next winters wood already cut, but I'd like to get about 2 years worth cut out of the tree tops. That will pretty much fill what I have for storage. Having a trailer to put behind the ATV will speed the process up a LOT.

Thanks for the help!

Mark