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MM,
It's hard to believe that you, a staunch suporter of safety requirements, would approve of MC's method.... Really surprising...
Will somebody please DO THE MATH here

Green weight log chart @ 16"= 50-100 lb/ft x 6'= weight of chunk

force on rigging= [weight + (weight x # ft of fall, from Cob toCob )] - friction on lowering device.

All that's got to add up to less than 10% of the tensile strength of each component in the system. And don't forget about the bend ratio of a small pulley on that 1/2" line.... would be 15% loss at 4:1, which would be a 2" diameter pulley.

My recollection is that friction from letting it run can only dissipate about 20% of the force.... CAn somebody verify that.

Even then, neither the FC nor the rescue pulley is designed for shock loading, and all components should no longer be used for life support.

I've broken the 10% SWL requirement plenty of times... but not like that.

SAFETY FIRST!!

PS.. MM seems like we did a role reversal here... ???
 
I'm sorry Mike but you can no longer work on any trees here in Tally and I was finally was able to read one of spydermans posts; ditto what he said.... yes on the green tenex slings get a bunch.

The closest near death experience for me was the mullet thing just today.


This is my favorite time of the year men,nice here in North Florida.


-OR you could do this.
 
Originally posted by Irradicable

What is the rateing of the bull rope that you were using?
What piece of the rigging was the weak link in the chain?
Considering the rateing of all your rigging and it's age, what is the safe limit for your chunks. Who can do the physics math?

Weight of chunk
Dynamic load due to fall height and breaking rate
Rateing of rigging reduced due to age and use
Added safety margin
Dave

Dave - all good question. I can answer a few:

1. Bull rope was 5/8" stable braid: rated at 16,400# (SWL=1640)

2. I'd say the weak link was the crappy block we had: a bit old and unservicable. Newer blocks provide ability to remove the sheaves in order to replace the bushings.

3. We used relatively new tenex eye slings to attach the block and port-a-wrap.... can't remember the rating on those.

4. I'd need help with the weight of the chunk. I'd estimate it to be 12' long and 18" diameter. Somebody with a green log weight chart can look it up for Post Oak and let us know.
 
Originally posted by murphy4trees
Green weight log chart @ 16"= 50-100 lb/ft x 6'= weight of chunk. Force on rigging= [weight + (weight x # ft of fall, from Cob toCob )] - friction on lowering device.

All that's got to add up to less than 10% of the tensile strength of each component in the system. And don't forget about the bend ratio of a small pulley on that 1/2" line.... would be 15% loss at 4:1, which would be a 2" diameter pulley.

My recollection is that friction from letting it run can only dissipate about 20% of the force.... CAn somebody verify that.

Even then, neither the FC nor the rescue pulley is designed for shock loading, and all components should no longer be used for life support.

All of my calculations are based on the above statement. I will do further research before taking on any serious tasks 'cause I don't wanna squash me or anything!;)

I guestimated the largest chunck to be about 400-500 lbs, remember the log was not a full 16" diameter all the way just at a few wide spots.My ropes tensile rating of 7,000 lbs should give me a 700 lb SWL right? Calculate the bend from the 2.37" pulley sheave at a 15% strengh loss and that leaves about a 600 lb SWL for my rope. The steel rescue pulley is marked w/ a 2,000 lb SWL. According to the green weight log chart info. that murphy4trees posted, the heaviest possible weight log I took was 600lbs. Force on the rigging. . . A ridiculously high estimate from COB to COB, 2ft, I think that would create about 1,200 lbs of downward force. Am I on track? Subtract 20% b/c it was allowed to run, and the downward force would be 960lbs.

With all of these calculations done against my favor. I don't think that I over exerted my gear too much, just maxed out. Not to mention I was looking for some hands on experience with heavier rigging then I usually will do. Had anything in my jerry rigged system failed, the only tradgedy would have been squashed shrubs.

Let me hear it, I really don't know what in the heck I'm talkin' about, but I'm learning and I need your criticism everyone.

-Mike-
 
i think that the reduction in force can be much more than 20% all depending on brakeforce. If there was no brakeforce/line there would be total reduction in force on the host spar. As brake force is introduced by the porty x present load force would be force on porty connection, then that x2 for force on Frictionless(block) Redirect on Upper Support. As the load powers a 2/1 on the Block connection/supporting anchor.

i also think that, the main objective would be to not let the load accelerate, and snub whatever force you could into the ground, without overheating the line etc. The heat would come from speed x friction, and friction pressure x contact area?, heat would collect at thermal insulators (synthetics, wood) contacted and dissipate on thermal conductors (metals, some even oil filled drums) with aluminum being a more 'jealous' metal, grabbing the heat evenly throughout it (better in cooking evenly) to more immediately dissipate it from friction point; compared to steel that dissipates heat slower through out it and can have more of a hot spot at most critical point to keep cool (rope contact). The 2 friction points of heat build up would be the Contact at block and porty (save a loose hitching viloently slipping into place aginst itself and wood), next is the hands of the line controller, gloves are a must for positive and safe action, most likely point of failure a lot of times in the system.

The point that carrys the most load (block) is metal, and reduces friction too, at the most critical point of 2x load. Allowing the friction at porty to be ground adjustable, non spiraling, non rope fraying, heat dissipating, 1xLoad point-to better handle friction with less damage to the line and less heat due to less load at same speed.

The trade off is that placing a frictional redirect to ground on upper support, lessens the upper anchoring support load, and also reduces the amount of dynamic area of line to take shock. So with pulley block back in the configuration,the support load raises, but there is more usable dynamic 'rubber band' for taking dynamic shock loads better. In self tightening rigs, i take the pulley back out, allow friction in for lower support loading, and have the desirable effect of less line to have to stretch for the rig to set itself, but then, not shock load at all- so i need less dynamic area of the line to share the shock, so no pulley is okay for both the dynamic loading as well as support loading decisions in that context.

For you will always have the weight of the load to contend with, the variable in the force formulae to address first (weight x speed) is the acceleration and the multiplier it introdeuces unto the ever present static weight of the load.

A bunch of that is all same as:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by heartland
Guys - here is what it says in my AM training guide. I'm pretty sure this is straight from Pete:

"One variable that almost always can be controlled is the distance of fall. If the piece falls a shorter distance, there will be less kinetic energy to convert to stretch in the rope, so the force will be lower. ...."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

in that the reason of reducing the fall, is to reduce the spead; thereby lowering the force; so i try not to let it accelerate in all cases except the few that, that actually helps, save short of stalling out so bad as fracturing pressure can build in a spar (partial cause of barber chairing?). Also in running the line after controlling speed therefore force, i also don't totally resist the total force of the load, for as many times inlife; it will only incur as much force as it resists; then that resistance (oops, almost, caught myself Brian!:eek: ) must equal that which it resists. The poor block is in the middle and has to put up with both of the warring guy's **** on either leg of it's line, so gets it from both ends,and incurs 2x force. Or something like that......

edit:- i think that resistant force of friction forces the system to realize more of the force of the load, so therefore increases line force to all points between friction and load, so how is it subtracted?.

i am of the school of thought that internal rope damage could result in a dynamically loaded line craking over a 1" bight with a static weight of 500#. Also second that the mentioned devices are not made for such loading, and have Rescue pulleys with bent sideplates to prove it!!

If drop to catch is calculated at 1/2Ton, line stretch and more run will usually result in lines not pretitghtend to that, or any other give in system. It would be buffered as line stretched, but still moving force i think.

Pulley diameter, rope efficiency is calculated on the diameter of the track the line runs on in the sheave, not the outer diameter of the sheave that is the advertised size; as pointed out to me by Mr. Joe.
 
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Originally posted by monkeypuzzle
I'm sorry Mike but you can no longer work on any trees here in Tally.
The closest near death experience for me was the mullet thing just today.
This is my favorite time of the year men,nice here in North Florida.
-OR you could do this.

FuzzyMonkey, I mean monkeypuzzle,

Sorry dude, I'm here to stay!
Did you get a mullet today?
This is a great time of year here!
And last but not least, what-R U tryin' to do? Get me killed by puttin' crane ideas into my head. I've got a lot of experience to gain, plus I want to come watch/help you first.

I'm out,
-Mikey-
:cool:
 
MC,
The measurement fron Cob start to Cob finish is bound to be at least as long as the chunck is... That is measure from the (level of the backcut up to tha CoB, before x 2) + distance from level of the backcut to butt of chunk after it's caught in the rigging.... It's got to be at least 6.... maybe 9 or 10'...
The force on your rigging was easily 4000-5000 lbs - friction on lowering device.
Hope that helps... Keep asking and learning..
God Bless,
Daniel
 
In general i guess i'd go with Daniel there. If the C.o.B. is about 1/2 way up, then it pivoting from 12 o'clock standing to rigging holding it at 6o'clock with a tight line, no stretch; takes the C.o.B. from 1/2 way up to 1/2 way down, for total movement of 1 spar length. And that is with the butt ending up being held as high as the stump by the rig, not dropping an inch! But if the C.o.B. was low, that could be less, if it is high, it would be more. For 2x 3/4 length would be 1 1/2lengths.

But actually, wouldn't it depend on when tearoff was, and how fast the load was moving at that point? Then, when it was caught by rig, how much it stretched the line? So that if hinge carried slowly to 3o'clock or later before tearoff, it could be much less, especially with a low C.o.B.? All the force deliverd to the line will stretch an un-prepared (and rest of the system points)line for that load, so motion will continue as the dynamic elasticity of the line runs out, then whatever force is built/buffered to there slams into the static properties of the line, as yet another event in the chain of events, also placing that force on all resisting points in the travel of the line lacing.

i didn't know where the 2' came from either, but had plenty more to focus on.

Once again in my imagery; if the piece fell without being tied on, it would impact the ground, not a line or UpperSupport; so force to them would be zero. When you put a line and attatch it to anything, the more friction braking the load, the more any point on the line between brake and load is realizes the potential force of the load. If it only is braking 100# of force of 4000#, it only realizes that in the rigging system; likewise if it resists 500# of the potential 4k, then the system incurs the 500#; only as much as it resists, or that the friction brakes.

If that friction is at the ground and a redirect pulley on an upper support, the LoadForce will power a 2/1 pulley machine against the support, but the increasing friction will dictate how much of that potential LoadForce (weight x speed) to be actually realized in items linked by the sytem. Now the braking friction can stall back acceleration and decrease potential force like that. But the refrence to subtracting friction from the force i'm not following. If friction/BrakeForce is on the UpperSupport rather than the pulley, friction will decrease force, on the control leg to the ground, thereby, lessening UpperSupport load, for if the pulley was there the holding ControlLeg would have to match the LoadForce to suspend it.

So the more braking frinction (that always produces heat), the more of the LoadForce that is made to be realized by all linked between the warring BrakeForce and LoadForce connected by the line, while isolating the offside of the friction device (your hands, or next device that heat from friction is allowed to dissipate from in between devices) from that part of force incurred by controlling the LoadForce. Kinda like, if you dodge a punch, you present no resistance and incur no force, you catch it in your hand, you resist it as friction does a load, and incur force. The more you hold your hand solid and resist, the more of the potential force of the total force of the punch you incur. If you punched some kind of spring board set to mechanically fuse/ give way and bend over at 10#, and punch it with 40#, it only incurs 10#, increasing the resistance, will increase the force incurred in the springboard system, so i see that the friction should not be a subtracted factor; for it's resistance increasing, is that which actually increases the incurred force up to the potential of the LoadForce.

This also means that the total force of punching the board with 10# force resistance is equal to 2 10# punches meeting head on, just as squarely as the board was met.


Friction/ BrakeForce can serve to decrease/subtract force over the whole scenario, by decreasing/halting acceleration.

If the pulley is on the upper support, that support system, incurs 2x the ResistedLoadForce (ControlLeg of system must match force resisted of LoadForce's potential as dictated by BrakeForce to suspend with pulley). Take the pulley out,and make that a frictional/braking UpperSupport, it now dictates how much of the LoadForce is realized on line between UpperSupport and load, then pull on control leg, so any of it's force is added to ressited force from UpperSupport, but not incurring the force that the UpperSupport resisted. So that the Upper support load will be the amount of ressited pull of the LoadForce on the load side of the support + the pull on the control leg providing additional resistance to LoadForce. Or UpperSupport incurs 2xRessitedLoadForce - friction on the UpperSupport; if the UpperSupport is non-frictional (pulley), then it incurs 2x ResistedLoadForce, but if it has friction (no pulley), then that friction reduces the pull needed by the control leg, therby now reducing force incurred by UpperSupport , all the way to the point, if the BrakeForce on UpperSupport = LoadForce (tied off to overhead branch), UpperSupportLoad will equal LoadForce, for there is no control leg pull. But, system now must take the full LoadForce till something fuses out and stops resisting. Or something like that!
 
so are you saying that you would rather rig down without a block and use just the rope and tree in order to increase the friction and reduce the force on the load / tree.
 
There are some large forces when chunking down a spar, nothing a 1/2" line couldn't handle in the discription of the work mike was doing. Murph's 4000 lbs figure might be generated with steel rope, 0 friction FC, and 100% braking. In mikes scenerio, we had fairly high friction FC, stretchy rope, and a groundman letting it run.
 
A good reference here is "The A & S of Practical Rigging", Capter 7 Understanding rigging forces, pgs 122-127...
The law of conservation of energy creates a situation where the only way force can be reduced in any given rig is through elastic energy (stretch in the rope) and friction which converts the energy to heat...
Pg 127 gives the example of a dynamometer test where a 650 lb piece created 4,554 lbs of force on the rigging point while letting it run....

a 631 lb piece that was held tight created 7,326 lbs of force on rigging point....

no mention was made of how far the pieces fell before being caught in the rigging... which would depend on how tall the chunck was and how the rigging was set....

So I guess by letting a piece run in optimal conditions the force could be reduced by about 40%....
 
One more time. . .

I love this website! Good thread to help me understand my ropes and forces I may apply to them. When I have more time I will come up with some more questions to help give me a better understanding. I also need to get some educational materials on rigging before doing anything serious where real property is involved.

Can someone re-explain the COB thing. How do I find the center of balance? From previous responses I concluded that the COB would be the center of the distance between the block and where the rope attaches to the piece to be rigged. I guess I'm wrong.:confused:

Thanks,
-Mike-
 
Mike - in an effort to KISS (keep is short and simple), here is my layman's explanation of CoB:

The point where the log would balance if it were laying horizontal.

Bearing that in mind, go back an look at my pic where it is tied off and you will see that my knots are well below the CoB. The "Distance of Fall" info from Pete in the A & S of practical rigging (I quoted it earlier) states that as long as the half-hitch (or marline, whichever you prefer) is *anywhere* below the CoB, you are good..... just don't want it so close to the hinge/cut area that there is risk of it coming off as the piece goes over.

If you go above the CoB, there is chance of the piece "rolling out" or doing a somersault.
 
C.o.B. CenterofBalance is where it will seesaw balance horizontally on a vertical pivot (from under or above), as TimT. says. It defines an awful lot in all of this, sometimes is the most important thing to spot out.

The hinge is the pivot (no rigging here), and the C.o.B. is the point that you calculate pull on the hinge from etc. This is the input power of the machine, how much leverage you allow it to take on your rigging, is dictated by PivotPoint to C.o.B. relationship.

Hitch is below C.o.B. so that hitch pulls closed positively and half hitch to, if C.o.B. is below leading 1/2 and running bowline then the lacing could pull open. The final position, would be C.o.B. between half hitch and running bowline, this will be sloppy and not positive.

TJK- Balancing that strategy with tree damage (bark,cambium damage in non-removel of support), loss of dynamic load area (less rubberband to any shock), undissiapated heat buildup etc..

It is tradeoffs per situation, more shocking needs more line area to absorb, so pulley gives that. Weaker UpperSupport might not handle increased loads of pulley, add friction high and/or other supports. Or put pulley back in and commit to running the load, to pull less on system.

It all depends, on all componenets and elements, assesing what you have and how many routes you can take from that point, what you have time and gear for and you dream is maximum.

In many things i go for high friction on UpperSupport, to decrease the amonunt of dynamic line area, which also decreases the amount of line i need to stretch, as i am trying to get the line to prestretch itself before tearoff automatically, to it's own specification; thereby eliiminating most buildup in force, by handing load off to line gradually, rather than dropping the load into the line. For, if i pre stretch to 435#, and load is 500#, very lil dynamic loading, drop etc., which also helps to lessen SupportLoad, as well as the high friction.

It does that as it builds resistance to load as line stretches, just as it takes 10#pull to resist 10#pull, so i place that pull at a high leverage point of the load just insside the C.o.B. (making almost perfectly balanced seesaw 1stclass lever, when line provides firm enough support to be a pivot), and slowly cause the hinge to begin to fail. If i can get the load to move from a second class lever pivoting on the hinge and controlled by the line, and rearange that with loading to the point that the line is the pivot; and faairly well balanced load, so that the lins is pivot and hinge is control!!!! After tearoff the hanging load will always be a 1st class lever, before tearoff, generally a 2ndclass lever. If i can cheat, and get a fairly balanced load to slip from 2nd class lever status, to 1st class lever status before tearoff, almost magic is possible. i am answering a question to the images and theories i've presented, that wasn't in the focus of this post, i am speaking now of overhead support, not catching a top from underneath on it's host spar. If i can get that pull to high leverage on the load from the side, the pull of resistance from the tightline can pull it around. The length of spar from the hinge to hitch now doubles as a pivoting reach to move the hitch right under the UpperSupport before tearoff, so there is no force from swing to that plumb bobbing point.

Iff at tearoff the hitch is between you and UpperSupport then load swings away, iff at TearOff UpperSupport is in between hinging and LoadHitchPoint then load comes back at you. In betwixt, iff at tearoff LoadHitchPoint is in the 3rd scenario or lined up under UpperSupport at TearOff, then no swing. C.o.B. outside of Hitching on load, pulls hitches closed, puts softer green forgiving end down first, and lifts stob up at tearoff (towards chin away from roof) if unimpeded..

i break levers into 2 classes, pivot in between input and output forces (seesaw) is 1st class lever. Otherwise (pivot on either end) non1st class. If a nonfirstclass lever increases power/loses speed, it is 2nd class by the book. If nonfirstclass lever, and gain speed/lose power therefore 3rd class lever by the book.

In a non 1st class lever, seeing as the pivot is on the end, the system is more space efficient for what it does, place the pivot in the center and the same trick takes more space, but the trade off is in the write situations, a 1st class lever can do some of the work by balancing the load, for one side is the ballast.

We were lifting logs onto a heavy equipment trailer for someone the other day, puling with a truck to overhead pulley. i showed the guys on that crew, not to hitch the load at the end, it takes more clearance and hard to manipulate. Hitch near center, length above hitch point rides free, you don't have to lift higher to clear obstacles. Also in arranging the logs and seating them, if they are hitched close to center, the light side is trying to help you lift the heavy. So, they start lifting and guiding and thought that was okay. But i wasn't happy, that puts you straining and under the load. i hung on the light side, that picked up the other heavier end, they drifted like magic into place without me lifting. If something went wrong, you are more likely to fall clear too. then we put tag lines on the light ends, and that was safest, best.

Now if fly weight here can pull down on a spar and spirit the other end around, so will/same as moving a load into 1st class position before tearoff, as the hinge has more holding power than me to balance the heavy end and sweep it around. Close to the C.o.B. hitching, pulling on the farthest leverage point (hinge position at end of log).

im sorry some of that goes back to the wheel barrel. Before lifting into position, the C.o.B. is between lift and the pivot of axle on ground, harder to work. Lift it further/ rearrange weight to put 1/2 on the opposite side of the axle, and the C.o.B. is now over the axle. And it is easier to work, the axle carries the weight, with deft balance from operator, as the weight has now shifted and the axle is under the C.o.B. and load is floating along, one side balancing the other. move the C.o.B. out from you some, almost no effort, but handles push more positively against your hands, for deft control, like tree rig with C.o.B. just outside the hitch point.


Or something like that

Brother Daniel, i'm still thinking that if you set up your rig, and i stupidly forgot to hold the line or put it into the porty even, you cut, and nothing hung up, that running load would put less than 60% pull on UpperSupport; 3 raps, forget to hold more force, but with an real loading, and no hanging up still low resistance, line flying etc. i really think that, there is no force on system, that system doesn't resist. Kinda martial artsy/ Zen, but both physics and philosophy life sciences? Whereby, every action must have an equal and opposite reaction i guess i am saying (wow did i just make that up?); without resistance to the force, the force can't be invoked. It can be present, it can blow by, but only things that resist it, will incur it; a sail more than a screen, a tree with leaves or same tree in dormancy etc.

i think that the braking friction would be taking force out of the load, but placing it on the system in trade, i think that running a load can get it away from climber, keep load from accelerating and gaining force, direct to ground; sometimes snubbing out the last part of force into the ground like a cig butt. Any could not go well or at maximum, depending on the tweaks.

i totally agree that the rubber band (stretchy nylon) and how much of it is available before friction, to share the absorption of the dynamic loading is of top consideration after minimizing the amount of force that is handed to that next factor. In dynamic loading, i think that within a line's range, that dynamic lines properties are more important than a static lines strength. But in static situations of tight rigging a static line's rating, or strength rating or a dynamic line pushed/stretched to it's static characteristic range per the load would lead. So situation dependant.
 
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I disagree will high friction rigging. With low friction on upper supports I can make those supports stronger then they are by increasing- decreasing the angle of inflection-deflection by using multiple anchors. You talk about pretentioning the lines, How can you do that with added friction. It will take MORE pull to aquire the needed resistance. Plus with False Crotches we can put anchors anywhere we want. Now If a load is cut and suspended over an obsticle the ground crew will have to pull it out, if it is rigged with high friction they will need to pull more than the load weighs. Plus you have more force on the tree than is nessasary. I have been doing this for years, and have seen it done by other well respected climbers. I just do not understand how friction can help with rigging in any way. Another thought if the rigging line is in a high friction set up it can be difficult to drag the line around the tree. you have to pull a bunch of extra weight around with you, and that seems counter productive. I would like to hear more about your thoughts, but for my sake try to use terms we are all familiar with. I'm just a tree man
 
Wow TreeSpyder,
I can't belive I read the WHOLE thing! :D

My previous questions were directed towards Tim Trentadue not mikecross23. It appears that the piece that he dropped in the pics could have weighed as much as 1200# and fell as much as 4' cob to cob. That's if you measure from the half hitch from start to finish with no stretch included so we would have 4800# of force (correct me if I'm wrong) x 2 on the pulley for a total of 9600#of force. Tim said that the block was most likely the weakest link in the chain of rigging, but what about the splice at the top of the block?

I have always found it safer to just climb a little higher and cut smaller chunks but it would be faster to know what your rig is capable of handling safely and not have to worry about where that chunk is going to fly off to when the rig parts! :eek: I imagine that is what Tim was in the class for in the first place.

Dave
 
Tim,
How far away from the Port-a-wrap was the groundie standing? Was the Port-a-wrap attached to the base of the spar you were working in?

Thanks for the math work Daniel.

Dave
 
Porty was attached at base of the spar.

Groundie was about 20' out. If I can figure out how to post the mpeg, you guys could see it all (anybody have suggestions, let me know). He did a real nice job of letting it run. There was very little shock load to the tree.

That is the goal of all this and what AM stresses throughout the training: reduce the shock loading to the tree.

I've got other pics where we setup a fishing pole that I'll post when I get time. Probably make that one a separate post since it focuses on another rigging technique.

Throughout the training, we employed speedline and load-transfer rigging too. Load-transfer rigging is a really good way of reducing loads on the subject tree.
 
tjk,
I have been trying to wrap my mind around Spidy's method for some time and have come to the conclusion that he is years ahead of his time and as such many of his techniques seem counter-intuitive to the way progressive arboriculture is being done...
His posts on triangle hinges got me re-reading Dent and together have bumped my felling technique up a few notches... Again from something that seems counter-intuitive and yet it REALLY REALLY works..... So I have come to trust this man's knowledge and experience as he so generously shares here...
I also believe we are actually developping language as we name and write about these principles of treework... So it is often challenging to express in writing what we know and work with every day... So yes Spidy can be difficult to "digest" and may turn many readers off.... yet there are some wonderful nuggets available fro those whom are willing to think out of the box...

As to Spidy's high friction riggging technique.... I think it has merit especially for those that don't have a GRCS.... I think the tool is well worth the money even though I haven't bought one myself yet... So here's the way I understand spidy's high friction rigging...... 1st the groundies "sweat out" the slack from the lowering line system. I think there is a thread on that around here somewhere... Then he makes the cut in such a way as to have the limb slowly move it's weight onto the line...
So by the time the limb actually tears off the hinge the majority of it's weight is already on the line... thus the line has been pre-tensioned.... The high friction at the overhead anchor makes less line in the system that needs to be pre-tensioned. So a huge part of this is in the cut.. He uses the triangled hinge technique to make the limb move horizontally.. so it slowly sweeps under to overhead anchor... You've got to see it to believe .. This is more like ballet than tree surgery...
And there is probably something about the center of balance of the limb that comes into play.. I Am still working on that.. Also at tear off the climber needs to be aware of the limb kicking back at him... If the groundies are paying attention, they let it run as soon as the arc of sweep is complete.. and probably before or just at tear off.
I still have yet to experiment with this in the field.. and plan to do so at my earliest opportunity...
Hoep that helps..
 
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