Two-Stroke Oils: All the Same?

[Kel71]

I saw it somewhere on the internet so it must be true.
You can use half as much 4 stroke oil mixed in your gas.
Because 4 stroke oil is good for twice as many strokes.

 

[OM617YOTA]

I'm going to start mixing KY jelly with my gasoline instead of two stroke oil. Good for lots of strokes, right?

 

[sean donato]

I'm going to start mixing KY jelly with my gasoline instead of two stroke oil. Good for lots of strokes, right?

Depends on the size of your saw....

 

[bwalker]

Castrol Go looks like good stuff, FB rated (not FD) but I wouldn't see that as a deal-breaker.

Castrol Go looks like good stuff, FB rated (not FD) but I wouldn't see that as a deal-breaker.

I can't see running a FB oil when an FD oils are available for the same price and make no mistake they perform better.

 

[Lightning Performance]

I can't see running a FB oil when an FD oils are available for the same price and make no mistake they perform better.

But but.....
Any oil is better then no oil

 

[rogue60]

Almost as bad as the good old a leaking decomp burned up me saw up myth
Even though it's impossible for a running saw to let air in through the decomp we'll just over look that fact.

 

[MacAttack]

I can't see running a FB oil when an FD oils are available for the same price and make no mistake they perform better.

I don't disagree, I wouldn't buy an FB rated oil when FD rated oil (like the Red Armor I just bought) is readily available.
But at the same time, according to sources the only difference in lubricity was from Jaso FA to FB. FC and FD just have better detergents and less exhaust blocking properties and smoke. Further down is the document right from the JASO website, in terms of lubricity and "initial torque" there is no difference from FB to FD.
So from that perspective, I'd have no concerns running an FB oil, except that it won't run as clean. So maybe more carbon build up to deal with.

I feel like I'm learning something, haha

 

[bwalker]

I don't disagree, I wouldn't buy an FB rated oil when FD rated oil (like the Red Armor I just bought) is readily available.

But at the same time, according to sources the only difference in lubricity was from Jaso FA to FB. FC and FD just have better detergents and less exhaust blocking properties and smoke. Further down is the document right from the JASO website, in terms of lubricity and "initial torque" there is no difference from FB to FD.

So from that perspective, I'd have no concerns running an FB oil, except that it won't run as clean. So maybe more carbon build up to deal with.



I feel like I'm learning something, haha









I don't disagree, I wouldn't buy an FB rated oil when FD rated oil (like the Red Armor I just bought) is readily available.
But at the same time, according to sources the only difference in lubricity was from Jaso FA to FB. FC and FD just have better detergents and less exhaust blocking properties and smoke. Further down is the document right from the JASO website, in terms of lubricity and "initial torque" there is no difference from FB to FD.
So from that perspective, I'd have no concerns running an FB oil, except that it won't run as clean. So maybe more carbon build up to deal with.

I feel like I'm learning something, haha

Lubricity hasn't been a problem since the 80's. Cleanliness with FB oils have. A prime example of this is Stihl Ultra.
Muchnof the wear in a two stroke is caused by decreases in ring mobility. As such ring belt cleanliness is a big deal and its why FC and FD came about. That and exhaust valve cleanliness, which isnt an issue with a saw.
The other thing to consider is the upgrades in bas oils needed to meet FC and FD also increased lubricity.
I'm not suggesting that guys like Rouge60 stop doing what they are doing if it works for them. What I am saying is I won't run FB oil when much better alternatives exist.

 

[MacAttack]

I was thinking something along the lines that the FC and FD oils are probably better base stock even though they are tested to the same lubricity requirements as the FB. In order to achieve the cleaner running.
You probably would see the lubricity differences under extreme conditions more so than normal conditions.

 

[Lightning Performance]

I was thinking something along the lines that the FC and FD oils are probably better base stock even though they are tested to the same lubricity requirements as the FB. In order to achieve the cleaner running.
You probably would see the lubricity differences under extreme conditions more so than normal conditions.

If you're not running lean it is probably never going to be an issue running higher heat oil. The FB does seem to run better from certain manufactures. I like the 7000 or 9000 series FB or FD but the FD is better at lower temps with fuel injection systems over a broader temperature range for viscosity. If your not running 16-1 or 32-1 at very low temps or fuel injection you can't tune no worries with full synthetics except carbon.

 

[MacAttack]

Whenever I get into these discussions, I still hear that voice in my head reminding me that 2-strokes lasted for decades with nothing better than TC rated oil, or nothing more than 30-40 wt motor oil before that.
But the newer, higher RPM, high-performance stuff might not have survived on straight 40 weight, haha. But Id bet they last a good long time on the old Pennzoil, Castrol 2T TC-rated oils.

 

[Lightning Performance]

Whenever I get into these discussions, I still hear that voice in my head reminding me that 2-strokes lasted for decades with nothing better than TC rated oil, or nothing more than 30-40 wt motor oil before that.
But the newer, higher RPM, high-performance stuff might not have survived on straight 40 weight, haha. But Id bet they last a good long time on the old Pennzoil, Castrol 2T TC-rated oils.

Caster mixed in periodically with them all is good. The problem was buildup until seizure in past times. If you ran Castrol mixed with caster oil or Belray oil mixed with a 2T the wear could be reduced plenty in old 2smokes like dirtbikes and mopeds. The trick was keeping them clean before modern detergents changed for the better. Red Armor removes carbon if you have enough left behind around the rings and skirts area. If not you get scuffing. Caster would build up there and prevent metal to metal contact and lockup your rings or drag the skirt. It would stick and chatter at low rpms. Too much of a good thing is bad. Today oils rarely have these issue but Stihl. It's sludge goo in the silver can. The headaches from the fuel stabilizer are epic. I wash enough bearings to see how it stays behind even on piston rings and skirts. Brown sludge yup.

 

[MacAttack]

I thought I read those castor oils like Klotz Benol are excellent for lubrication but the side effects are getting gummed up and also corrosion if they are in storage? No personal experience with them though.

 

[sean donato]

They do, just gum up the engine, especially if you like to run rich. Really no need for it these days.

 

[Hundred Acre Wood]

Too much of a good thing is bad. Today oils rarely have these issue but Stihl. It's sludge goo in the silver can. The headaches from the fuel stabilizer are epic. I wash enough bearings to see how it stays behind even on piston rings and skirts. Brown sludge yup.

It's really weird how some people say Stihl Ultra is bad oil. Every actual photo and video I've seen proves it's really clean when used per the manufacturer's instructions at 50:1.

Why would Stihl produce an oil that makes their product run worse than the competition?

 

[Lightning Performance]

It's really weird how some people say Stihl Ultra is bad oil. Every actual photo and video I've seen proves it's really clean when used per the manufacturer's instructions at 50:1.

Why would Stihl produce an oil that makes their product run worse than the competition?

Idk
Why will 32-1 or 40-1 leave so much residue behind?
Why add fuel stabilizer?
Why do other oils mixed at the same ratios clean off Stihl sludge?
Why does Stihl use a cheap thirty year old formulation? = cheap and sell more tools.
You answer the rest I got nothing.

Open motors vs looking at photos.

 

[bwalker]

It's really weird how some people say Stihl Ultra is bad oil. Every actual photo and video I've seen proves it's really clean when used per the manufacturer's instructions at 50:1.

Why would Stihl produce an oil that makes their product run worse than the competition?

Ultra is crap oil and there is plenty of evidence of this.
Stihl Orange bottle oil isn't great either.
Stihl over all has always had poor quality oils for a premium price.

 

[bwalker]

Idk
Why will 32-1 or 40-1 leave so much residue behind?
Why add fuel stabilizer?
Why do other oils mixed at the same ratios clean off Stihl sludge?
Why does Stihl use a cheap thirty year old formulation? = cheap and sell more tools.
You answer the rest I got nothing.

Open motors vs looking at photos.

I ran 32:1 in various motors, including many chainsaws used for logging for years with zero deposit issues. IME 32:1 engines actually run cleaner and that makes sense given you have more detergents passing through the motor. Also keep in mind most carbon comes from the gas and not the oil.

 

[bwalker]

I thought I read those castor oils like Klotz Benol are excellent for lubrication but the side effects are getting gummed up and also corrosion if they are in storage? No personal experience with them though.

There is zero reason to use castor or castor blend oils in a saw. And yes corrosion and deposits are major issues.

 

[Hundred Acre Wood]

Why will 32-1 or 40-1 leave so much residue behind?

Because it's designed to work at 50:1? It's almost like the engineers tested it and made sure it worked that way.

Would you put diesel in your gas car and expect it to work?

Why do other oils mixed at the same ratios clean off Stihl sludge?

Because different formulations of oil behave differently? You seem to recognize that different oils behave differently, yet when Stihl Ultra behaves differently you're surprised? That's a very conflicted view of the data in front of you.

Why does Stihl use a cheap thirty year old formulation? = cheap and sell more tools.

Again you appear to be arguing that the strategy Stihl, a very successful company for the last 100 years, has adopted is to sell more product by making a crappy oil. They should start selling oil that just seizes the motor immediately! Sales will skyrocket!

You answer the rest I got nothing.

Clearly that's the case.