UTAH Wood Burning Ban

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Wow. If I were from Utah I would be sending a very loud message to the Governors office that such stupidity will be dealt with by voting anyone out of office who is even remotely involved in this.

This quote from the Utah Division of Air Quality: “For everything we do, we require best available control technology,” he says. “And for space heating, the best available control technology is natural gas or electric.” Do these people think we are living back at the turn of the century? Our Blaze King burns nearly as clean as a lot of gas furnaces currently in operation. And do they really believe there is no carbon footprint for bringing natural gas or electric to your house? How do these idiots even get in a position of authority?

Is this really about improving air quality or just a disguise to force billions more out of hard working people's pockets? Funny how they didn't even start with forcing everyone to burn an EPA rated stove. No, they are going for the whole enchilada by banning ALL wood stoves. This point alone speaks volumes that the politicians of Utah are in bed with big business.

The problem facing wood burners is that we are a minority. Majority rules and keeping the majority from passing ignorant laws such as these will become increasingly difficult. This will affect all of us eventually so we need to do all we can to support our fellow wood burners where ever they might live. Thanks Huntingdog1 for posting this.
 
I'm surprised something like this would go on in Utah. I thought Mormons were particularly focused on being self sufficient. They encourage people to can a lot of food and to grow gardens. Providing your own heat by your own labor is a big part of being self sufficient. How many more horrific winters are we going to go through before these global warming idiots give up on this fraud?
 
I'm surprised something like this would go on in Utah. I thought Mormons were particularly focused on being self sufficient. They encourage people to can a lot of food and to grow gardens. Providing your own heat by your own labor is a big part of being self sufficient. How many more horrific winters are we going to go through before these global warming idiots give up on this fraud?
they will never back off...ever...they want TOTAL control. just like some of the leftist freaks on here. they want to dictate what stove you should own..........
 
I'm surprised something like this would go on in Utah. I thought Mormons were particularly focused on being self sufficient. They encourage people to can a lot of food and to grow gardens. Providing your own heat by your own labor is a big part of being self sufficient. How many more horrific winters are we going to go through before these global warming idiots give up on this fraud?

That's for the little peeps. The big guys, mormon or not, want you to support wall street, so they can all be billionaires and keep raking it in with their make work "jobs". That's what runs all governments, big huge whopper business. It has little to do with the phony left/right crap, that's political theater to keep the serfs amused and pointing fingers at each other.

The "royals" have been using divide and keep 'em conquered for thousands of years, and we still got the "royals", they just keep changing titles and what sort of fancy dress they wear over the generations. I call it technofeudalism.

They, big business "they", can't send you a monthly bill when you heat with wood. Your utilities have to come from some big corporation to fit their plan.

As to food, there is serious war on small independent farmers and gardeners out there.
 
I'm a Utahn, and I'm not happy about this proposed legislation at all.

The root problem is: cars create half of the visual pollution, but the politicians are "smart" enough to know that they can point fingers at the "bad" wood-burners (who are a small minority, and therefore easy to pick on).

We have three valleys that easily trap pollution during the winter inversions (Cache, Salt Lake, and Utah), so the problem only really happens in the winter. The problem is caused by 1) Cars and 2) everything else. The politicians will happily sacrifice any small group of voters to appease the majority.

When the average citizen sees a smoking diesel or chimney, they automatically assume they've found the source of the local pollution. Most folks don't realize that a car's exhaust gasses come out "clean" (meaning no visible particles), but the gases later combine in the air and are changed by sunlight into the dirty bathwater air we see here locally.

I'll predict that within 5 years, these three valleys/counties will have Southern California-level smog rules in place, which include among other things, more stringent auto & truck smog regulations, no BBQs, no wood burning, and finally a new bronze statue of Stalin in front of the state capitol.
 
At first when I saw this post I had a small panic attack. I live in central Utah and heat with wood, but after I went to the link I realized a few things. First, the link is to KUER radio station. This is a station run by the UofU. It is a NPR (National Propaganda Radio) affiliate. This is nothing new other than they want a total burn ban instead of the current green, yellow, red burn day system. "Green" days you are free to burn, "yellow" they don't want you to, and "red" is a big no, no.

Let me clime onto my soap box here for a moment.

The Wasatch front, (Salt lake, Prove, Ogden and surrounding cities) have a major problem. It has had major problem in the winter (and now in the summers) for hundreds if not thousands of years. Long before Brigham Young got to Salt Lake in 1847. These cities sit in mountain valleys. The Indians would refer to the Salt lake valley as the dirty valley. They get major inversions in the winter and in the summer. Everything gets trapped in the valley during an inversion. Salt lake is ruffly 4400' in elevation depending where you are in the valley. Park City (ski resorts, 2002 winter Olympics) is ruffly at 7000'. Today they were about the same temperature with Park City's air being much better and healthier. Many times in the winter Park City will be 10 or 20 degrees warmer than Salt lake. I was born and raised in Salt lake Valley. 15 years ago I uprooted my family and moved 100 miles south for many reasons, but the main reason was so my oldest daughter could survive and make it to adulthood as healthy as she could. She had RSV when she was a 1 year old and would have major problems breathing in the winter time. I had major problems breathing in the winter time.

I still work out of Salt Lake. Most of the time I am there just long enough to jump in my commercial tractor-trailer and leave again. Today I spent 12 hours there and was gasping for air after about 6 hours of the stuff. It is a serious problem and it is only going to get worse. And, yes they take a shotgun approach to this problem every year about this same time.

There was an article in the last few days on the local news about how total electric cars pollute more than gasoline cars because most of the electricity is generated by coal, 80% if I remember right in Utah. This has caused a major stir by the clean air crowd because they have been pushing these "Clean Energy" cars as a viable alternative. The coal fired power plants are hundreds of miles away, out of sight, out of mind, not in my backyard mentality. It is fun to sit back and watch when the liberals attack each other.

They go after the diesel trucks in pure ignorance. All of the big trucks built since 2012 have to meet the stricter EPA standards and are a true clean energy vehicle. If it uses DEF (diesel exhaust fluid) the air coming out of the stack in Salt lake right now is cleaner than the air going in the intake manifold. Within a few years the vast majority of diesel trucks will be using DEF. Most of the newer trucks have " idle free" systems, APUs and will keep the drive comfortable, both winter and summer without running the engine. Most people do not know about these advancements and have a cow about the few remaining older trucks that still idle at night to keep warm.

It is already illegal to burn wood in Salt lake right now, it is a red burn day today for a good reason. It is not a government conspiracy, it is a major health problem. They could shut everything down, cars, the refineries, the airport, your scented candles, and Salt lake would still have some of the worst air in the US this time of year. As a Utah resident I am not suppose to tell anyone outside of Utah this dirty little secret, they want your tourist money and more tax revenue, but we already have enough California transplants so to that I say, it is terrible here, don't move here.

It this the longest post ever on AS?
 
Some people would call me a hypocrite because I burn wood to heat my house, but the burn ban only effects 5 or 6 counties out of 29 counties in Utah. I don't live in one of those 5 counties and my emissions are clear. Most of my neighbors here in town heat with wood, I love it here as a result. With that said I have at least two with in 10 miles of me that give the rest of us a bad name. Both are OWB and smoke like Mount Pinatubo. Both of them have stacks that are too short, the close them down tight so they will get the longest burn cycle and one even burns old railroad ties. We are truly are own worst enemies at times. I love to burn wood and everything that goes with it, saws, splitters, more saws, etc. but I love to breath and enjoy my good health the the health of my family even more.
 
One more side note, every time we get a storm in northern Utah it blows all of the crap out of the valleys and we will have good air for a few days. We have had a warmer than normal winter with only a few storms so far so the air is even worse. All of the ski resorts are above this mess and even though I do not ski I enjoy the benefits that the ski resorts bring to this area of the world so, please come and bring your tourist money, lots of it because you will need it to ski at most of them. Just make sure that you go home to somewhere else after all of your money is gone.

I don't want to offend anyone in Colorado, but Utah does have the best snow on earth, and as bad as Salt lake is Denver is far, far worse for a slug of reasons. Most of you California transplants would like it much better in Denver than Salt lake. Just a thought.
 
How many more horrific winters are we going to go through before these global warming idiots give up on this fraud?
9UKFND
 
At first when I saw this post I had a small panic attack. I live in central Utah and heat with wood, but after I went to the link I realized a few things. First, the link is to KUER radio station. This is a station run by the UofU. It is a NPR (National Propaganda Radio) affiliate. This is nothing new other than they want a total burn ban instead of the current green, yellow, red burn day system. "Green" days you are free to burn, "yellow" they don't want you to, and "red" is a big no, no.

Let me clime onto my soap box here for a moment.

The Wasatch front, (Salt lake, Prove, Ogden and surrounding cities) have a major problem. It has had major problem in the winter (and now in the summers) for hundreds if not thousands of years. Long before Brigham Young got to Salt Lake in 1847. These cities sit in mountain valleys. The Indians would refer to the Salt lake valley as the dirty valley. They get major inversions in the winter and in the summer. Everything gets trapped in the valley during an inversion. Salt lake is ruffly 4400' in elevation depending where you are in the valley. Park City (ski resorts, 2002 winter Olympics) is ruffly at 7000'. Today they were about the same temperature with Park City's air being much better and healthier. Many times in the winter Park City will be 10 or 20 degrees warmer than Salt lake. I was born and raised in Salt lake Valley. 15 years ago I uprooted my family and moved 100 miles south for many reasons, but the main reason was so my oldest daughter could survive and make it to adulthood as healthy as she could. She had RSV when she was a 1 year old and would have major problems breathing in the winter time. I had major problems breathing in the winter time.

I still work out of Salt Lake. Most of the time I am there just long enough to jump in my commercial tractor-trailer and leave again. Today I spent 12 hours there and was gasping for air after about 6 hours of the stuff. It is a serious problem and it is only going to get worse. And, yes they take a shotgun approach to this problem every year about this same time.

There was an article in the last few days on the local news about how total electric cars pollute more than gasoline cars because most of the electricity is generated by coal, 80% if I remember right in Utah. This has caused a major stir by the clean air crowd because they have been pushing these "Clean Energy" cars as a viable alternative. The coal fired power plants are hundreds of miles away, out of sight, out of mind, not in my backyard mentality. It is fun to sit back and watch when the liberals attack each other.

They go after the diesel trucks in pure ignorance. All of the big trucks built since 2012 have to meet the stricter EPA standards and are a true clean energy vehicle. If it uses DEF (diesel exhaust fluid) the air coming out of the stack in Salt lake right now is cleaner than the air going in the intake manifold. Within a few years the vast majority of diesel trucks will be using DEF. Most of the newer trucks have " idle free" systems, APUs and will keep the drive comfortable, both winter and summer without running the engine. Most people do not know about these advancements and have a cow about the few remaining older trucks that still idle at night to keep warm.

It is already illegal to burn wood in Salt lake right now, it is a red burn day today for a good reason. It is not a government conspiracy, it is a major health problem. They could shut everything down, cars, the refineries, the airport, your scented candles, and Salt lake would still have some of the worst air in the US this time of year. As a Utah resident I am not suppose to tell anyone outside of Utah this dirty little secret, they want your tourist money and more tax revenue, but we already have enough California transplants so to that I say, it is terrible here, don't move here.

It this the longest post ever on AS?

That's one of the major points with electric vehicles, the fuel being burnt is elsewhere, not all concentrated in a major urban heat island. Big cities concentrate pollution, so if it can be addressed some place else, with appropriate clean as possible burn technology, it helps.
 
One more side note, every time we get a storm in northern Utah it blows all of the crap out of the valleys and we will have good air for a few days. We have had a warmer than normal winter with only a few storms so far so the air is even worse. All of the ski resorts are above this mess and even though I do not ski I enjoy the benefits that the ski resorts bring to this area of the world so, please come and bring your tourist money, lots of it because you will need it to ski at most of them. Just make sure that you go home to somewhere else after all of your money is gone.

I don't want to offend anyone in Colorado, but Utah does have the best snow on earth, and as bad as Salt lake is Denver is far, far worse for a slug of reasons. Most of you California transplants would like it much better in Denver than Salt lake. Just a thought.

HA! I think you are a fellow, Don't Move Here member.

I have skied in your fair state. I saved up for it and we hit Park City. We PNWers were oohing and ahing over the snow quality, and out when it was snowing hard--the Texans and New Yorkers were staying inside. A local told us that we were skiing in unusually heavy snow for there. We thought it was quite light. We even ventured onto the slopes at Deer Valley, but brought sack lunches to save a bit of money. We did sack lunches all the time because of the prices.
 
“For everything we do, we require best available control technology,” he says. “And for space heating, the best available control technology is natural gas or electric.”

I'm not even sure what the "control technology" phrase is supposed to mean, but good luck with the strategy of continued reliance on fossil fuel. These are the beginning glimpses of a coming train wreck. The simple fact is that much of the US west is well beyond the population the region can support, even in a era of unusually mild climate for that region, and it's only by leveraging cheap and plentiful fossil fuels that we've been able to make it seem to be viable. But we used the accessible and inexpensive sources up and now we have only the difficult to reach and expensive sources that can't produce at the same rates.

We played games of diverting credit to the fracking companies and made another financial bubble, and produced more energy than the weak economy needs, sold at prices that didn't cover the costs of extraction. As those investments fail the credit supply will dry up, and the production will fall. So the folks who think using natural gas is a good idea are in for an unpleasant surprise as that bubble pops. Meanwhile people look for other ways to get by, like wood heat, but not everywhere is appropriate for that, for a lot of reasons - especially if more and more people try it. What works for a few cannot be scaled up to everyone.

And nobody wants to think about the fact that those areas that cannot support the present population there will eventually have lower populations anyway.
 
At first when I saw this post I had a small panic attack. I live in central Utah and heat with wood, but after I went to the link I realized a few things. First, the link is to KUER radio station. This is a station run by the UofU. It is a NPR (National Propaganda Radio) affiliate. This is nothing new other than they want a total burn ban instead of the current green, yellow, red burn day system. "Green" days you are free to burn, "yellow" they don't want you to, and "red" is a big no, no.

Let me clime onto my soap box here for a moment.

The Wasatch front, (Salt lake, Prove, Ogden and surrounding cities) have a major problem. It has had major problem in the winter (and now in the summers) for hundreds if not thousands of years. Long before Brigham Young got to Salt Lake in 1847. These cities sit in mountain valleys. The Indians would refer to the Salt lake valley as the dirty valley. They get major inversions in the winter and in the summer. Everything gets trapped in the valley during an inversion. Salt lake is ruffly 4400' in elevation depending where you are in the valley. Park City (ski resorts, 2002 winter Olympics) is ruffly at 7000'. Today they were about the same temperature with Park City's air being much better and healthier. Many times in the winter Park City will be 10 or 20 degrees warmer than Salt lake. I was born and raised in Salt lake Valley. 15 years ago I uprooted my family and moved 100 miles south for many reasons, but the main reason was so my oldest daughter could survive and make it to adulthood as healthy as she could. She had RSV when she was a 1 year old and would have major problems breathing in the winter time. I had major problems breathing in the winter time.

I still work out of Salt Lake. Most of the time I am there just long enough to jump in my commercial tractor-trailer and leave again. Today I spent 12 hours there and was gasping for air after about 6 hours of the stuff. It is a serious problem and it is only going to get worse. And, yes they take a shotgun approach to this problem every year about this same time.

There was an article in the last few days on the local news about how total electric cars pollute more than gasoline cars because most of the electricity is generated by coal, 80% if I remember right in Utah. This has caused a major stir by the clean air crowd because they have been pushing these "Clean Energy" cars as a viable alternative. The coal fired power plants are hundreds of miles away, out of sight, out of mind, not in my backyard mentality. It is fun to sit back and watch when the liberals attack each other.

They go after the diesel trucks in pure ignorance. All of the big trucks built since 2012 have to meet the stricter EPA standards and are a true clean energy vehicle. If it uses DEF (diesel exhaust fluid) the air coming out of the stack in Salt lake right now is cleaner than the air going in the intake manifold. Within a few years the vast majority of diesel trucks will be using DEF. Most of the newer trucks have " idle free" systems, APUs and will keep the drive comfortable, both winter and summer without running the engine. Most people do not know about these advancements and have a cow about the few remaining older trucks that still idle at night to keep warm.

It is already illegal to burn wood in Salt lake right now, it is a red burn day today for a good reason. It is not a government conspiracy, it is a major health problem. They could shut everything down, cars, the refineries, the airport, your scented candles, and Salt lake would still have some of the worst air in the US this time of year. As a Utah resident I am not suppose to tell anyone outside of Utah this dirty little secret, they want your tourist money and more tax revenue, but we already have enough California transplants so to that I say, it is terrible here, don't move here.

It this the longest post ever on AS?

To answer your question, yes:)

But on a serious note, where is your outrage on this issue? Yes, we understand your air quality issues. In the Treasure Valley where I live, we have inversions every year and they suck. They've been around longer than the white man. Inversions are part of living out west and yes, we all should do our part when it comes to air quality.

But even by Utah's own numbers (which will be skewed high), wood smoke accounts for 5% of the particulate matter trapped in the air during these inversions. Think about that. They are going to wipe out an entire industry in these counties, putting hurt on tens of thousands of hard working people over 5%? No program to even address the 5%...no, just eliminate the problem no matter how small it might be. That makes no sense.

All "polluters" are given a chance to clean up with technology etc. Where is your outrage that Utah doesn't want to give wood burners the same chance? Have you communicated to your ignorant Governor how clean a modern day wood stove can burn? Does Utah have an incentive program like Idaho where they pay you to upgrade to an EPA rated stove? Doesn't sound like they are interested in that. Why? There's no money in it. They want to force people to live on the grid. Self sufficiency? We'll have non of that.

Energy in this country has many forms and wood heat is an important part that should be encouraged, not discouraged. Ask people back east if they think it's a good idea to be forced to heat with electric or gas. When the power goes out for days or weeks, you have no heat.

Lots of wood burners in Utah including you will turn a deaf ear to this issue because it's somebody elses problem. It will only affect a neighboring county, no big deal. If this is allowed, you have to know it is only a matter of time before it comes to your county. If you don't stand and fight for them, do you think they will be there for you when your time comes?

Your leaders in Utah are either extremely ignorant or they are extremely corrupt...or both. So I respectfully ask you again, where is your outrage?
 
How long until people figure out that their part of North America is not the whole globe?

View attachment 392631
how long until "researchers" realize their data is nowhere even close to complete...and it never will be?
all that chart tells you is the change in temps from average temps recorded over 21 years...how do theses changes relate to the billions of un-recorded years of temps? all of this is just observation with no proof that its not "normal" change that's been going on long before we were here!
 
how long until "researchers" realize their data is nowhere even close to complete...and it never will be?
all that chart tells you is the change in temps from average temps recorded over 21 years...how do theses changes relate to the billions of un-recorded years of temps? all of this is just observation with no proof that its not "normal" change that's been going on long before we were here!
Your comment implied that the cold winter where you live somehow showed that global warming was a fraud. Perhaps you could explain this reasoning?

I posted a map of relative temps that show many places are presently much warmer than normal and pointed out that the weather at your house is not very meaningful in regard to global anything.

Meh, nevermind, it's pointless.
 
Perhaps you could explain this reasoning?

where in my comment does it say anything about my local weather???

warmer than normal

how can you determine whats normal when research only covers less then .000002% of total years earth has been around?? you can call it what you want but ANY "research" is just observation until there is enough data to determine a pattern...likely humans will never be around long enough to determine earth's natural pattern!
I'm not saying the temps have not changed, I'm saying how can anyone determine that this is not a "normal" natural pattern earth goes through! nothing is constant, earth has already gone through far more drastic changes than humans will likely ever see, all of which happened before man kind.
I just don't believe there's enough data to determine the cause of the warmer temps... perhaps a chart with average temps over the past 4.6 billion years would convince me...got one of those on hand do you??, no? then its just observation!
 
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