Chucksta
What could possibly go wrong??
I know it's a long shot, but has anyone here any experience with one of these. It'll start, and then about a minute later, it dies. Disconnect the fuel line, and re-attach it, and it does the same thing??
Wajax pump trouble shoot
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Chucksta
What could possibly go wrong??
It's a piece of fire fighting equipment ( specifically for bush fires). It's an all in one 2 stroke engine and high pressure pump. 
Chucksta
What could possibly go wrong??
It's old.. but not that old.. Pretty much like the posted pic. Runs 24 / 1 mix ratio. Starts and runs, then slowly dies out. Disconnect the twist and turn fuel coupler, stick something in the female end of the fuel line, squeeze the primer bulb to verify the fuel flow.. Yup, there's fuel there!! Half a dozen pulls later it sputters into life, runs for about a minute, then slowly dies.. again.. It's gotta be fuel related.. but where? New fuel supply female end, and all else checks out good WTF??
You got the owner's manual for the pump? It includes an extensive troubleshooting guide.
Easy to find the PDF manual on-line.
Roy
Easy to find the PDF manual on-line.
Roy
Chucksta
What could possibly go wrong??
I've read the updated owner's manual, and it covers a lot of territory, and points to possible causes. But, it doesn't have a section for "runs then doesn't... runs then doesn't" 
I'm a member of the local volunteer fire department in a small community. As such, we have limited financial resources for our fire fighting equipment. I'm usually pretty good at being able to diagnose and repair stuff. This unit, however, has been a thorn in our side for quite some time. It's an older unit, but we don't have the 10K to replace it. I usually fix stuff, as I'm the resident gear head.
The "runs then it doesn't" .. makes diagnosis problematic. I can't run the unit ( under load), unless it's got water in the pump. And, I'd like to think that the best scenario for diagnostics is when it face plants under actual operating conditions. I could go with field diagnostics like.. when it stalls out, try to restart with choke on, and see if the plug gets wet, check for spark, etc., etc., I was hoping that someone on this site had experience with working on these pumps, and could go " Ohhhhh.. when they do that, it means that the flux capacitor needs re-alignment."
IMHO, it could be the integral fuel pump in the carb, but I hate to try and remedy the situation by throwing parts at it when I'm not sure of the underlying issue. The carb seems to have a bit of an internal fuel reservoir, but relies on a pulse pump.
There seems to be a lot of people on this site that know about way more stuff than chainsaws.. A LOT more.
Maybe just wishful thinking on my part, but I thought it was worth a shot to reach out to the community.
Hail Mary.. full of grace..
I'm a member of the local volunteer fire department in a small community. As such, we have limited financial resources for our fire fighting equipment. I'm usually pretty good at being able to diagnose and repair stuff. This unit, however, has been a thorn in our side for quite some time. It's an older unit, but we don't have the 10K to replace it. I usually fix stuff, as I'm the resident gear head.
The "runs then it doesn't" .. makes diagnosis problematic. I can't run the unit ( under load), unless it's got water in the pump. And, I'd like to think that the best scenario for diagnostics is when it face plants under actual operating conditions. I could go with field diagnostics like.. when it stalls out, try to restart with choke on, and see if the plug gets wet, check for spark, etc., etc., I was hoping that someone on this site had experience with working on these pumps, and could go " Ohhhhh.. when they do that, it means that the flux capacitor needs re-alignment."
IMHO, it could be the integral fuel pump in the carb, but I hate to try and remedy the situation by throwing parts at it when I'm not sure of the underlying issue. The carb seems to have a bit of an internal fuel reservoir, but relies on a pulse pump.
There seems to be a lot of people on this site that know about way more stuff than chainsaws.. A LOT more.
Maybe just wishful thinking on my part, but I thought it was worth a shot to reach out to the community.
Hail Mary.. full of grace..
I have run Mark 3s for a long time, too.
And, have not encountered the issue you describe.
Your department has other tank/hose assemblies? I would swap one in, and see if that helps.
Then, perhaps, elevate the tank above the saw and see if anything changes.
Roy
And, have not encountered the issue you describe.
Your department has other tank/hose assemblies? I would swap one in, and see if that helps.
Then, perhaps, elevate the tank above the saw and see if anything changes.
Roy
Condition of the plug after it dies?
While I, too, am not a throw parts at it guy...I always test with a new plug when dealing with Mark 3 issues.
While I, too, am not a throw parts at it guy...I always test with a new plug when dealing with Mark 3 issues.
Chucksta
What could possibly go wrong??
It's the only Wajax we have. We tried new fuel, making sure that the tank was full and level. Elevating the tank above the level of the pump.. Nada.. Runs for a bit less than 2 minutes and then slowly dies. Take the fuel connection off, press the female end in the fuel hose, and squeeze the primer bulb. Fuel immediately present.. no issues.. About 3 to 5 pulls, and it slowly stutters into life. Runs like an absolute beast for at least a minute, and then again slowly dies and stalls.
This S.O.B. has been a thorn in our sides for quite sometime. As a fire department, we can't have stuff that only works when it wants to. After looking into the starting tecniques on YouTube, it became appearant that there's not supposed to be a secret handshake to get it going. Hook up the fuel, squeeze the primer bulb ( gently), move the throttle lever to the start position, close that choke , .. and it should just start in a couple of pulls. We sent it to a guy who said that he would take a look at it.. He'd worked on Wajax pumps before. He replaced the fuel connection, and I don't know what else.
Then, there's the "Bryan" factor.. Bryan is our guy who usually is in charge of that kind of equipment. Other people could get the Wajax to ( occasionally ) start, but Bryan never could. After we'd sent it out and got it back, we went to the lake for a practice with it. It started, no problems ( Once we found the choke lever ) .. and it started flawlessly for all 8 of us ( Bryan wasn't at that practice). Bryan showed up for the next practice, and we decided that we'd once again head down to the lake and let him and one other Fire Fighter tick off another box on their skills set.. It started up for him on the second pull, and ran like a beast until shutdown.
It thereafter refused to even cough.. 8 of us took turns yanking the starter cord. Nada. Disconnect the fuel line.. reconnect the fuel line.. Yank 3 to 10 times.. starts and runs like a beast for about 90 seconds , and then slowly dies ( kinda sounds like a 4 stroke as it slowly gives up the ghost). So now.. We call it the "Curse of Bryan".. We even made him go stand 100 feet away, while we tried to get it going properly.. It still died..
This S.O.B. has been a thorn in our sides for quite sometime. As a fire department, we can't have stuff that only works when it wants to. After looking into the starting tecniques on YouTube, it became appearant that there's not supposed to be a secret handshake to get it going. Hook up the fuel, squeeze the primer bulb ( gently), move the throttle lever to the start position, close that choke , .. and it should just start in a couple of pulls. We sent it to a guy who said that he would take a look at it.. He'd worked on Wajax pumps before. He replaced the fuel connection, and I don't know what else.
Then, there's the "Bryan" factor.. Bryan is our guy who usually is in charge of that kind of equipment. Other people could get the Wajax to ( occasionally ) start, but Bryan never could. After we'd sent it out and got it back, we went to the lake for a practice with it. It started, no problems ( Once we found the choke lever
) .. and it started flawlessly for all 8 of us ( Bryan wasn't at that practice). Bryan showed up for the next practice, and we decided that we'd once again head down to the lake and let him and one other Fire Fighter tick off another box on their skills set.. It started up for him on the second pull, and ran like a beast until shutdown. It thereafter refused to even cough.. 8 of us took turns yanking the starter cord. Nada. Disconnect the fuel line.. reconnect the fuel line.. Yank 3 to 10 times.. starts and runs like a beast for about 90 seconds , and then slowly dies ( kinda sounds like a 4 stroke as it slowly gives up the ghost). So now.. We call it the "Curse of Bryan".. We even made him go stand 100 feet away, while we tried to get it going properly.. It still died..
Chucksta
What could possibly go wrong??
Can't see it being the plug.. it starts too easily, and runs too well.. for about 90 seconds.. then slowly dies.. Re-starts after re-connection of fuel line, but fuel line delivery tests fine..
Coil!It's the only Wajax we have. We tried new fuel, making sure that the tank was full and level. Elevating the tank above the level of the pump.. Nada.. Runs for a bit less than 2 minutes and then slowly dies. Take the fuel connection off, press the female end in the fuel hose, and squeeze the primer bulb. Fuel immediately present.. no issues.. About 3 to 5 pulls, and it slowly stutters into life. Runs like an absolute beast for at least a minute, and then again slowly dies and stalls.
This S.O.B. has been a thorn in our sides for quite sometime. As a fire department, we can't have stuff that only works when it wants to. After looking into the starting tecniques on YouTube, it became appearant that there's not supposed to be a secret handshake to get it going. Hook up the fuel, squeeze the primer bulb ( gently), move the throttle lever to the start position, close that choke , .. and it should just start in a couple of pulls. We sent it to a guy who said that he would take a look at it.. He'd worked on Wajax pumps before. He replaced the fuel connection, and I don't know what else.
Then, there's the "Bryan" factor.. Bryan is our guy who usually is in charge of that kind of equipment. Other people could get the Wajax to ( occasionally ) start, but Bryan never could. After we'd sent it out and got it back, we went to the lake for a practice with it. It started, no problems ( Once we found the choke lever
It thereafter refused to even cough.. 8 of us took turns yanking the starter cord. Nada. Disconnect the fuel line.. reconnect the fuel line.. Yank 3 to 10 times.. starts and runs like a beast for about 90 seconds , and then slowly dies ( kinda sounds like a 4 stroke as it slowly gives up the ghost). So now.. We call it the "Curse of Bryan".. We even made him go stand 100 feet away, while we tried to get it going properly.. It still died..
Chucksta
What could possibly go wrong??
Unfortunately, to deal with it in real time, I'd have to go to the Fire Hall, grab the utility truck ( with the Wajax in it), and head down to the lake by myself. The crew treat everything as a committee .. 5 people standing around the pump, trying to do the math on how to mix a 24 to 1 fuel ratio.. Why won't it start.. Pull this.. press that.. No, .. close the throttle.. Blahh.. Blahh.. Blahhh..
A 5 person committee on what to do about a battery tender that died. I waited until the Fire Hall was empty, and just diagnosed it as a bad fuse link. 10 minutes, a new fuse link, a couple of marretts, and some electrical tape and zip ties, and it was problem solved in 20 minutes for $3.29.
Chucksta
What could possibly go wrong??
Collapsing under heat and load??
I, too, am not quite 100% on it being fuel.
Are you close to a provincial fire cache? Here, in Maine, if a local FD showed up at a state cache, they'd probably leave with a loaner carb and coil to test their saw. I have been in Quebec fire caches...massive places. I assume, Ontario is the same.
I have had countless issues getting Mark 3s to run. But, every single time, once they started, they didn't stop until we told them to. Like, non-stop for multiple whole shifts. They are amazing units.
Roy
Are you close to a provincial fire cache? Here, in Maine, if a local FD showed up at a state cache, they'd probably leave with a loaner carb and coil to test their saw. I have been in Quebec fire caches...massive places. I assume, Ontario is the same.
I have had countless issues getting Mark 3s to run. But, every single time, once they started, they didn't stop until we told them to. Like, non-stop for multiple whole shifts. They are amazing units.
Roy
Chucksta
What could possibly go wrong??
I've got a 30 H.P. Yamaha outboard on the back of my pontoon boat. It's a '92. Last year I had a running issue with it. It'd start fine, and run. But, as it warmed up, it'd fall apart. Really seemed like a carb issue, as it ran like the carb was getting too much , or not enough gas.. but the weird part was that it seemed dependent on heat. Sure enough, at the end of the day, it was the (dual in one) coil breaking down once heat from the engine got to the coil. A new coil solved the problem, permanently. Might be the same with the Wajax, and that the disconnecting and re-fitting the fuel delivery might just be the cooling down time that the coil needs to start working again..
Loaner parts? Here, we're pretty much on our own.
It's the starts and runs like a beast.. that says it's either fuel supply, or, as has been pointed out, a breakdown in the coils, that is the issue.
That being said, when we took it out two weeks ago, we didn't run it more than a minute.. The exercise was to get every member of the team to prime it, get it started, and then shut it down. .. On to the next member.. Might not have gotten it hot enough to fail. Also, if it IS the coil, it'll get worse every time it gets used.. It's not like it's going to get better by itself.
Question... If I put a spark tester in line with the plug, would it show less spark ( orange colour in the sight glass ), as it failed, or, is so little spark needed to light up the sight glass, that the spark level could fall below what is needed to actually fire the the plug, and still show active in the spark tester ?
Loaner parts? Here, we're pretty much on our own.
It's the starts and runs like a beast.. that says it's either fuel supply, or, as has been pointed out, a breakdown in the coils, that is the issue.
That being said, when we took it out two weeks ago, we didn't run it more than a minute.. The exercise was to get every member of the team to prime it, get it started, and then shut it down. .. On to the next member.. Might not have gotten it hot enough to fail. Also, if it IS the coil, it'll get worse every time it gets used.. It's not like it's going to get better by itself.
Question... If I put a spark tester in line with the plug, would it show less spark ( orange colour in the sight glass ), as it failed, or, is so little spark needed to light up the sight glass, that the spark level could fall below what is needed to actually fire the the plug, and still show active in the spark tester ?
Chucksta
What could possibly go wrong??
We've got a fair amount of stuff for a small community fire hall.. But, only one Wajax . It's our only "bush fire" pump. That thing will cough up ( when it runs), almost 600 P.S.I. of pressure.. It'll literally cut throughs in the ground to stop a bush fire from advancing. When it works, it's an amazing piece of kit. Theoretically, as the Wajax has an internal pulse driven fuel pump ( like most hand held 2 strokes), it shouldn't matter if the gas tank is above or below the level of the pump.. we've tried elevating the fuel tank.. it didn't seem to matter.
So to sumerize, you've done no actual diagnosis and the guy you sent it to didn't really tell you what he did to it.
I agree it sounds like a coil, but check it with a ignition tester. This is one if the few times I'd suggest an inline since they are food for heat soak issues. It's a cheap item. Goes inbetween the plug wire and the plug, lights up every time the plug fires. Not the proper way to test but good for these running issues.
It could very well be a carb issue or something else, but based on your description I'm inclined to think not.
Lisle Spark Tester https://a.co/d/2ZibVvh
Just so you know what they look like. Not my favored type to use, but it's cheap and perfect for running issues that may be spark.
I agree it sounds like a coil, but check it with a ignition tester. This is one if the few times I'd suggest an inline since they are food for heat soak issues. It's a cheap item. Goes inbetween the plug wire and the plug, lights up every time the plug fires. Not the proper way to test but good for these running issues.
It could very well be a carb issue or something else, but based on your description I'm inclined to think not.
Lisle Spark Tester https://a.co/d/2ZibVvh
Just so you know what they look like. Not my favored type to use, but it's cheap and perfect for running issues that may be spark.
Chucksta
What could possibly go wrong??
Question... If I put a spark tester in line with the plug, would it show less spark ( orange colour in the sight glass ), as it failed, or, is so little spark needed to light up the sight glass, that the spark level could fall below what is needed to actually fire the the plug, and still show active in the spark tester ?
Chucksta
What could possibly go wrong??
In regard to doing diagnosis.. I'd like to, but it's hard when you're surrounded by a whole crew who each thinks that they know the right answer. I hate having to wait until there's no one in the hall to fix something. Part of "duty cycle" ( where you get two weeks to check out all the equipment ), was to vent the tanker truck's air system.. I found out that everyone who has ever done it, just pumped the brakes on the tanker, until the compressor came on.. No one had ever stuck their hand under the driver's side step, and grabbed the three cords and vented the air reservoir tanks.. I knew where that stuff was, and how to do it after accumulating almost a million miles, accident free, over the road class A driving ( 40 years ago) for ERB transport, and Bondy Freight. There's a certain mentality at the fire hall, where everybody knows everything, but, in reality, a lot just don't know jack.. They just posture, and carry on like they are experts. I don't want to piss off the rest of the crew, but it's kinda like having to fix stuff in stealth mode. I'd like to think that I'm smart enough to know what I know, and know what I don't know, and am smart enough to know the difference.
