Wajax pump trouble shoot

[OM617YOTA]

Spitballing here, no experience with these pumps.

I have a Honda 2200w generator, hooked to a boat tank with a standard boat connector, and an adapter on the generator fuel cap. The generator has a fuel pump, so while the normal fuel cap just has a vent, the adapter is sealed and makes it draw fuel from the remote tank. Works fine for the most part, but I've had the fuel connector not open the internal valve when connected, not pass fuel, and choke out the generator when it pulled a vacuum in the generator fuel tank.

Maybe something similar is happening to your fire pump. Remove the fuel connector from the lines, connect the lines with a clear fuel filter so you can see movement, and see what it does. If that fixes it, replace the fuel connector.

 

[Chucksta]

Coil!

Re you tag line.. Somethings happening here... Buffalo Springfield.

Saying.. Ya got to be ware.

 

[Chucksta]

Spitballing here, no experience with these pumps.

I have a Honda 2200w generator, hooked to a boat tank with a standard boat connector, and an adapter on the generator fuel cap. The generator has a fuel pump, so while the normal fuel cap just has a vent, the adapter is sealed and makes it draw fuel from the remote tank. Works fine for the most part, but I've had the fuel connector not open the internal valve when connected, not pass fuel, and choke out the generator when it pulled a vacuum in the generator fuel tank.

Maybe something similar is happening to your fire pump. Remove the fuel connector from the lines, connect the lines with a clear fuel filter so you can see movement, and see what it does. If that fixes it, replace the fuel connector.

Interesting.. Only problem with that, is a proprietal connection between the tank and engine ( Mercury?).. How would you test that? My only thought was that when it died, put the choke on and yank the crap out of it, and then pull the plug out .. immediately.. If it was wet, then go with that it wasn't a fuel shortage, and look at the coil.

 

[OM617YOTA]

Pull off the air cleaner. When it's starting to die, give it a shot of fuel from another source. Squirt bottle full of two stroke mix, or something similar. If it picks up while you're adding fuel, that narrows down your issue. If it makes no difference, look at spark.

If the issue is fuel related, for the fuel connector, I'd bypass it like I said and watch for fuel flow through a filter.

 

[sean donato]

Question... If I put a spark tester in line with the plug, would it show less spark ( orange colour in the sight glass ), as it failed, or, is so little spark needed to light up the sight glass, that the spark level could fall below what is needed to actually fire the the plug, and still show active in the spark tester ?

It's more of an idiot light then anything, doesn't affect the spark or the firing of the plug. Mine is pretty old and only ever lights up an orange yellow color, at idle you can see it blink when the plug fires, higher rpm its just constantly lit. It's kinda a pass-through design, it will only light if the coil has enough power to jump the plug gap and ground the system.

 

[sean donato]

Pull off the air cleaner. When it's starting to die, give it a shot of fuel from another source. Squirt bottle full of two stroke mix, or something similar. If it picks up while you're adding fuel, that narrows down your issue. If it makes no difference, look at spark.

If the issue is fuel related, for the fuel connector, I'd bypass it like I said and watch for fuel flow through a filter.

Adding to that the mercury boat fuel connector has been pretty standard for a lot of years and problem free in my experience.

 

[Chucksta]

Pull off the air cleaner. When it's starting to die, give it a shot of fuel from another source. Squirt bottle full of two stroke mix, or something similar. If it picks up while you're adding fuel, that narrows down your issue. If it makes no difference, look at spark.

If the issue is fuel related, for the fuel connector, I'd bypass it like I said and watch for fuel flow through a filter.

Sorta kinda tried that.. when it started to fall off, we hit the primer bulb.. that killed immediately.. Although, when I tried that, it was well on it's way to dying ( again).. Could try a shot of carb cleaner, but, if it's the coil failing due to heat, it'd still die anyways.. But then I'd know that it wasn't a lack of fuel....

 

[Chucksta]

It's more of an idiot light then anything, doesn't affect the spark or the firing of the plug. Mine is pretty old and only ever lights up an orange yellow color, at idle you can see it blink when the plug fires, higher rpm its just constantly lit. It's kinda a pass-through design, it will only light if the coil has enough power to jump the plug gap and ground the system.

So.. if the light goes out, as it's starting to die, that would point to the coil as the culprit?

 

[Mad Professor]

They updated those to run 50:1 fuel. I was just on their website.

Check for leaks in the primer bulb and line that connects it. If that don't help try loosening the gas cap, it could have a plugged tank vent. While you are in there make sure you didn't forget to fill the tank.

Don't use carb cleaner to prime the carb, use mix.

PS the brandname is Waterax

https://www.waterax.com/en/home

 

[Mad Professor]

 

[OM617YOTA]

But then I'd know that it wasn't a lack of fuel....

That was exactly the point of my suggestion.

 

[MudgeHollowBeaver]

So.. if the light goes out, as it's starting to die, that would point to the coil as the culprit?

Could be. If the light goes out it means there is no longer any ignition spark...some of the units have overtemp sensing that could also be killing the ignition either in overtemp or an electrical fault. It sounds like your problem is more fuel related like a plugged fuel tank vent or a stuck carb valve or plugged filter screen. what type of carb is it? If it has a pulse type fuel pump check for vacuum leaks and the condition of the pump diaphram.

 

[sean donato]

So.. if the light goes out, as it's starting to die, that would point to the coil as the culprit?

It would point to the ignition system. So yes, assuming it doesn't have any other controls to shut it down for some other reason.

 

[grizz55chev]

It would point to the ignition system. So yes, assuming it doesn't have any other controls to shut it down for some other reason.

Like a low oil sensor, for instance.

 

[Chucksta]

So, first off, thanks to all for input / suggestions, and insight.

Here's where I'm at with it, in regards to what I've tried.....

Yup, it's got fresh fuel. Premium Ethanol free, mixed at 24 to 1 .. ( I'm pretty sure the 24 to 1 was for old school dino oil.. It's been updated to 50 to 1 in the revised manual ). When it dies, on restart, it does send a nice cloud of blue out over the lake. To me, that would indicate that there was fuel, but for some reason, it wasn't igniting. That points to an ignition problem. Coil breaking down with heat?

As it's a pulse type carb, there's no fuel bowl or float, so it shouldn't care if the unit isn't sitting dead flat. It also shouldn't matter if the fuel tank is level with, slightly above or below the level of the pump. And yes.. tried all that. Elevating the tank above the level of the unit had no effect on how long till it died.

Vent on fuel tank is open, no signs of vacuum, and I've taken the filler cap right off while it was starting to die.. It still dies..

No cracks in the fuel supply line. No leaks. New female twist lock fuel connector. If you stick a screwdriver into the female and, fuel comes out, if you squeeze the primer bulb.. a LOT of fuel comes out.. So, there doesn't seem to be an issue with fuel supply to the unit.. "Seem to be" , being the admission of not being absolute certainty. As there is no float bowl, it's not like it'd run for a minute plus, with no fuel supply, or an inadequate fuel supply. When it's making hundreds of PSI, and pumping a lot of water... it's using a LOT of fuel.. It's an old school thirsty pig.

One of the reasons that it went out to get repaired was that I bitched that having a non functional pump on a truck just wasn't acceptable. One of the residents in our community had experience with these pumps. We reached out to him, and he agreed to "take a look at it". However, I highly doubt if he actually took it down to the lake and made it work under load. To my observation, it just got a new female fuel coupling and a new plug. Can't complain.. he did it for the cost of parts. It did start and run. The stopping after a minute or so was not why he had it in. It was sent to him for a "no start" ..

When the coil went out on my Yamaha 30 .. it would run fine.. for about 3 to 5 minutes.. Then it wouldn't take throttle, at least

It would point to the ignition system. So yes, assuming it doesn't have any other controls to shut it down for some other reason.

It has an overspeed cut out. AFAIK, it works correctly. If the pump looses prime, or sucks enough air from the water surface, it kills the motor immediately ( if it's at operating RPM setting), and needs to be manually reset. It'll pull surface air into the water intake if the intake hose isn't at least 6 to 8 inches below the surface.

 

[Chucksta]

Like a low oil sensor, for instance.

it's a 2 stroke, running on pre mix..

Controls..

on / off ignition switch.
decompression starting thingy. Works as it should.
choke, must be working, as it won't cold start without it.
Throttle. works as it should.
overspeed cut off.. Yup, I've triggered it . stops immediately .. reset and good to go.

 

[OM617YOTA]

Just because you can get fuel out of the connector when you disconnect it and manually push the pin doesn't mean the other side of the connector is pushing the pin enough when connected. Add fuel straight to the carb throat when it's dying and you can eliminate or confirm fuel is the issue. Why speculate on whether it's getting fuel or not when it's so easy to test?

My experience with coils is that they get the warmest immediately after the engine is shut off and the cooling fan stops working, letting the heat from the engine soak into everything. A bad coil that's heat related won't restart for 15-20 minutes. Does it restart immediately?

Do you have a 55 gallon drum, or a clean trash can? You could test right at the fire station, without having to go to the lake.

 

[Chucksta]

Just because you can get fuel out of the connector when you disconnect it and manually push the pin doesn't mean the other side of the connector is pushing the pin enough when connected. Add fuel straight to the carb throat when it's dying and you can eliminate or confirm fuel is the issue. Why speculate on whether it's getting fuel or not when it's so easy to test?

My experience with coils is that they get the warmest immediately after the engine is shut off and the cooling fan stops working, letting the heat from the engine soak into everything. A bad coil that's heat related won't restart for 15-20 minutes. Does it restart immediately?

Do you have a 55 gallon drum, or a clean trash can? You could test right at the fire station, without having to go to the lake.

Hmmmm.. That's a thought. It doesn't seem to die lean, as it sometimes smokes blue on the restart, indicating unburnt fuel in the system. On restart, it usually coughs a couple of times, and then a few more pulls, before getting it's act together. A spray into the carb throat as it dies would be a definitive answer as to whether or not it's a fuel related issue.

It doesn't restart immediately .. lol ,, the whole crew comes over and everyone has an opinion as to what is wrong.. It's murder by committee.. If it is the coil, it could be that the time spent discussing it, debating the issue, checking connections, etc., is the time needed for the coil to cool off enough for a successful restart.

As far as an actual test, a 55 gallon drum would get emptied in about 3 seconds.. The pump shouldn't even be started if not properly primed. Fortunately, the lake is about a 45 second walk from the fire hall.. It's just a PITA to set up the supply and discharge hoses, and have at it. If I were to do that.. I'd do it by myself.. without the "committee" present..

 

[sean donato]

So you can tedt both at the same time. Grab that inline tester, plug it in, grab a bottle of fuel to give it a squirt and go test it. When it starts to die, and the light is still lit give it a squirt of fuel. Simple and direct way to test it.

 

[OM617YOTA]

Spray the water back into the barrel.