jar944
ArboristSite Operative
Is this from that half blocked (non english language) link ?
If so, Any chance of seeing the pics?
Pretty Please, for this barely monolingual, untraveled Yank?
ill see if i can get them to display, but in teh mean time... here is some more nuggets of info from the other half of the dominating Overmars/Thiel team (BTW I didnt put this summary together)
A few words of wisdom from Mr Thiel
"We did not flow the principal and secondary transfers separately.
In fact flowing the transfers makes little sense!
The important thing is more their direction and how
they influence upon each other."
"No pressure transducers were ever used in our engine development.
And time/area was never calculated.
The port timings remained practically the same during 15 years!
What we did was trying different angles and radiuses, mainly on
the transfer ducts. I think we tried 40 different types of transfer ducts
that did not chanche the time/aerea. It was all about in which direction
the charge entered the cilinder and how the tranfer streams influenced upon
each other! Also about 200 different exhaust pipes were tried. After 2004
nothing much was changed but we improved with different power jet and
ignition mapping. It seemed nearly impossible to improve the transfer ducts
any more. The exhaust ducts were CNC machined, using different programs,
mainly to reduce exhaust duct volume. Also about 100 head designs were tried.
This work was done over a period of 12 years.
In september 2004 the design of the RSA started, at Derbi, and the first dyno
test was in october 2005. In the meantime Aprilia had been bought by Piaggio
which also owned Derbi, so we could use Aprilia cilinders.
The engine went very well almost at once!"
" Very little computer simulation was used, as far as I remember only for the cilinder and head cooling.
We once had an exhaust design software on loan from a very well known company, the results were useless! It was mostly cut and try!
Cilinder development was done without any computing, just logical thinking.
The exhaust ducts were CNC machined.
All improvements were fully understood."
"We never had pistons seize during our steady state tests.
Working on the dyno continuously 5 days a week!
I am 100% convinced our engine could have run for 6 hours at max power without seizing.
The problems arise when you close the throttle, or run part throttle!
The piston is mainly cooled by the transfer flow.
And at part throttle there is less transfer flow, causing detonation (auto ignition)
The entering fresh charge is ignited by the remaining, hot, burned gases!
You can see very severe damage to the piston after maybe 10 seconds at 20% throttle.
This still is an unresolved problem! I was thinking about a way to reduce engine power without closing the throttle. But how can you do this? I did not find a solution before I retired.
And nobody else was really interested.
At 100% throttle the engine was undestructible!
By making the transfer ports as wide as possible we had very good piston cooling"
"The part-throttle detonation was caused by the scavenging pressure dropping soo low that burnt gases entered the transfer ducts, notwithstanding a blowdown time.area that was sufficient for full throttle at high revs. It was not a situation that could have been cured by altering the ignition timing"
"we tested various oils and fuels, there was not much difference.
I think they were all 'copied' from ELF.
1:20 was used, we tried more and less oil: no big difference!
Long ago, at Bultaco, I tested Bell Ray oil 1:50.
The result was 2 seized big-ends in 1 day!
Later we used MOTUL with very good results"
"The most time was spent narrowing the bridges in the exhaust duct.
These could not be CNC machined:the inside was unreachable.
Preparing for plating took about half a day.
And preparing for dyno testing another half day.
A cylinder 'untouched' after plating would give 1,0 to 1,5 Hp less.
All cylinders destined for 'works' riders were dyno tested.
And reworked in case of missing HP.
We could dyno at maximum 3-4 cylinders a day.
Difference between 'best' and 'worst' cylinders was about 0,4 HP.
There were 2 people grinding cylinders daily.
I only did necessary corrections personally.
There were 2 dyno's working every day.
About 300 cylinders were made every year.
And apart of this we also constantly tried to improve HP.
Mostly batches of 30 cylinders were cast, 25 'as before' and 5 with small changes.
Between casting and dynoing took about 3 month's time.
We also dynoed replated cylinders.
They were almost never as good as new one's!"
rsss396
08-04-2013, 11:36 AM
Flow testing thetransfers proved a bit useless.
So we made many different types and tested them.
Why do you want tomake such a short stroke engine?
Square bore and stroke dimensions would be FAR better!
It gives you more port surface, which is power determinating.
And with a short stroke the piston will become very hot.
Personally I would make a slightly long stroke engine.
I cannot see 1 single advantage for a short stroke!
Power is mainlydetermined by blowdown, which is better with a triple port.
A bridged exhaust is wider at the bottom.
Which means the transfers have to be smaller.
This gives less power
When you havesufficient blowdown there is no exhaust flow anymore when the transfers open.
I suppose this happens at max. torque
After max power the blowdown becomes insufficient andexhaust gases penetrate the transfers.
You can see this when you take off the cylinder: thetranser ducts become black.
Some of the fresh charge goes into the exaust, this helpspiston cooling.
But when it becomes too much exhaust temperature becomeslower and you lose power and revs.
Until at a certain no. of revs the engine completelystops.