whadja do today?

[treevet]

I see there being predominantly 2 kinds of tree companies. One is the small owner operator companies like most of on this forum. The other is the large and trying to grow larger company that usually has an owner off stage and a general foreman that runs the show.

These larger companies have employees all over the place in quantity and ability. They are going to bid on anything and everything for the most part to keep the machine in motion. They will have 3 or 4 men on a jobsite sometimes because that is the most efficient way to use them at that given time. They cannot let them go for a week or two if work gets a little slow. They also can afford to take a smaller profit margin as they are making profit (hopefully) on other jobs at the same time in the grand scheme of things.

But the small guy can afford to live in the high bid pool as they evolve because it does not take so much coal to feed this furnace. The negative here is when the small guy gets slow, if they try to return to the lower bid pool , they may not be invited because of their high bid rep. The pos is they get invited to the high profile, high dollah, stuff because those seeking the high level arb, know they earned that spot somehow.

The public fails to acknowledge that they could return to the low bid pool because they usually are highly efficient, but also may harbor some resentment or jealousy, seeing the common laborer or "treeguy" living next to them when they worked so hard to get 3 degrees, etc.

 

[MarquisTree]

That is the key to making good money on any jobs Dave

very true, that was a quick response on my part that didnt convey what my point was. We have had good success on large contracts where the relative price per tree seems low but have been able to do high dollar days consistently by coming in with a much more efficiently crew then our competition can. We have been butting heads with the big orange hacks recently. We can't touch their daily rate stuff but are doing very well on production based contracts. Labor is our single biggest expense, especially when working on prevailing wage contracts (everyone on the crew makes min $50 an hour), we come in with more equipment to keep labor costs lower. Obviously nothing earth shattering here, pretty basic stuff.

 

[Toddppm]

I agree with the have to be efficient in everything. The problem with that kind of work is their expections to be high on the priority list and they can change the volume of work at any time.
Got to feed the monster, the big companies are amazing to me. I'd like to see how it all works but wouldn't want to do it personally. At least not yet, I have a lot more to figure out first.

 

[treeclimber101]

very true, that was a quick response on my part that didnt convey what my point was. We have had good success on large contracts where the relative price per tree seems low but have been able to do high dollar days consistently by coming in with a much more efficiently crew then our competition can. We have been butting heads with the big orange hacks recently. We can't touch their daily rate stuff but are doing very well on production based contracts. Labor is our single biggest expense, especially when working on prevailing wage contracts (everyone on the crew makes min $50 an hour), we come in with more equipment to keep labor costs lower. Obviously nothing earth shattering here, pretty basic stuff.

You can just give up on the big orange machine , they have shown if push comes to shove they will do work for free to preserve what they want to keep .. And while one job may be a hole in the water they are making money unmolested in other areas , your company could never truly compete with them in any market sometimes the will just throw ya a bone ... They can man work to the point where they will outproduce by shear numbers and as far competing companies you would probably not want to but heads with them to many times or one day you may arrive at work to the trucks all painted orange and a pink slip for you , they buy companies like water just to clear the bugs off there "business windshield "

 

[tree md]

I bid against the big O on a city golf course job... They came in less than half of what I bid... No thank you, they can have it...

On the flip side I have had people hire me to come in and fix their F-ups and even called me to come prune ahead of them when they found out they were working their street.

Rainy, dreary day here. I am supposed to go look at a job but told the HO it might be Tues. before I made it out there... To tell the truth I feel like finding a dark bar and just hide in a corner by myself. But family things to do today and work tomorrow so I'll just eat some BBQ, go to bed early and get back to work tomorrow.

 

[jefflovstrom]

(everyone on the crew makes min $50 an hour), we come in with more equipment to keep labor costs lower. Obviously nothing earth shattering here, pretty basic stuff.

Good post.
Jeff

 

[lxt]

Im seeing the posts about bidding, underbid & how to compete.......all I know is that in my area tree trimming is becoming like grass cutting........theres a 1-ton dump with a rental chipper, theres a white painted bucket & an asplundh chipper, theres a older 1-ton & a new chipper & on & on!

the other day I get drastically underbid by a construction company, large uprooted oak that pulled the whole ground section up roots & all (over 10ft of rootball) 2 dead elms, 1-hickory, cherry & hemlock which were harmed with the fall of this oak...well long story short I bid $3600.00...........the home remodeling outfit $1800.00 only took em 3 days with an english Interpretuer & their circular saws...LOL Well not sure how they did it....But, now I have to do battle against home builders.....It was bad enough when I had to battle against the lawn mower from hell! oh god why? (said in an al bundy like voice)



LXT...........

 

[MarquisTree]

You can just give up on the big orange machine , they have shown if push comes to shove they will do work for free to preserve what they want to keep .. And while one job may be a hole in the water they are making money unmolested in other areas , your company could never truly compete with them in any market sometimes the will just throw ya a bone ... They can man work to the point where they will outproduce by shear numbers and as far competing companies you would probably not want to but heads with them to many times or one day you may arrive at work to the trucks all painted orange and a pink slip for you , they buy companies like water just to clear the bugs off there "business windshield "

We are lucky up here in someways, the MAA and Mass tree wardens assc. has thrown them out of many towns. There are a lot of powers to be that have gotten sick of their ways. We are private company so no worries about a take over.

 

[MarquisTree]

very true, that was a quick response on my part that didnt convey what my point was. We have had good success on large contracts where the relative price per tree seems low but have been able to do high dollar days consistently by coming in with a much more efficiently crew then our competition can. We have been butting heads with the big orange hacks recently. We can't touch their daily rate stuff but are doing very well on production based contracts. Labor is our single biggest expense, especially when working on prevailing wage contracts (everyone on the crew makes min $50 an hour), we come in with more equipment to keep labor costs lower. Obviously nothing earth shattering here, pretty basic stuff.

So, this needs a correction, we dont butt heads with them, we dont even exist in their world. They are the largest tree or landscape business in the world. We were happy to have 5 crews doing storm work for one of utility companies... I am sure they had at least 5 crews on standby just within a mile of our shop. It is nice to be a local company making money doing work that is usually dominated by out of town companies, and the utility is very happy with our work.

 

[mattfr12]

So, this needs a correction, we dont butt heads with them, we dont even exist in their world. They are the largest tree or landscape business in the world. We were happy to have 5 crews doing storm work for one of utility companies... I am sure they had at least 5 crews on standby just within a mile of our shop. It is nice to be a local company making money doing work that is usually dominated by out of town companies, and the utility is very happy with our work.

What kinda rates do you guys charge for line work if you dont mind i have one to bid comming up and have never been contracted by a utility company before just emergency work for them when a storm knocks a larger tree that they just cant cut up and move.

 

[mattfr12]

Im seeing the posts about bidding, underbid & how to compete.......all I know is that in my area tree trimming is becoming like grass cutting........theres a 1-ton dump with a rental chipper, theres a white painted bucket & an asplundh chipper, theres a older 1-ton & a new chipper & on & on!

the other day I get drastically underbid by a construction company, large uprooted oak that pulled the whole ground section up roots & all (over 10ft of rootball) 2 dead elms, 1-hickory, cherry & hemlock which were harmed with the fall of this oak...well long story short I bid $3600.00...........the home remodeling outfit $1800.00 only took em 3 days with an english Interpretuer & their circular saws...LOL Well not sure how they did it....But, now I have to do battle against home builders.....It was bad enough when I had to battle against the lawn mower from hell! oh god why? (said in an al bundy like voice)



LXT...........

Doug if it gets slow this winter let me know i could use a hand. we have been doing production work for the instalation of water lines for almost a month residential work is backed up. we took down alot along roads where water lines are going in and have to take all the stumps down around 2 feet or intill nothing but dirt. because they cant cut the roads.

 

[MarquisTree]

What kinda rates do you guys charge for line work if you dont mind i have one to bid comming up and have never been contracted by a utility company before just emergency work for them when a storm knocks a larger tree that they just cant cut up and move.

Pm me your number, I don't like talking numbers on forums

 

[treeclimber101]

We are lucky up here in someways, the MAA and Mass tree wardens assc. has thrown them out of many towns. There are a lot of powers to be that have gotten sick of their ways. We are private company so no worries about a take over.

I am sure that you've heard of Quaker City tree they were a private company aswell 150+ employees non union company bought and sold for parts by the big orange machine I know this because I worked for PENN HERR a sub of Quaker ... All line and new const. clearing and ROW work ...They cut our comp. off and sank them too ...Its not a takeover if the boss sells and they if they wanted too would make an offer he couldn't refuse

 

[treevet]

Somewhat questionable referring to line clearance as arboriculture IMO. Nothing beneficial happening to the tree. Only entity gaining improvement is the utility and the purveyor of the service. Hopefully the tree does not incur too much negative direction in the process. But it DOES always incur a negative.

Maybe not pertinent to this discussion but just thought I'd throw that in there. I am an arborist and I do not do commercial line clearance which is just a mechanical removal of branches for X amount of space, nor do I ever desire or intend to, no matter what profit is involved.

You may have an arborist that does line clearance (and you may certainly not ofcourse).... but what he does while he does line clearance is not arboriculture IMO.

 

[treevet]

come on guys....somebody thinks that is a lot of bull hooey

everybody's tiptoeing all over da place

let's mix it up a little

 

[Bigus Termitius]

Somewhat questionable referring to line clearance as arboriculture IMO. Nothing beneficial happening to the tree. Only entity gaining improvement is the utility and the purveyor of the service. Hopefully the tree does not incur too much negative direction in the process. But it DOES always incur a negative.

Maybe not pertinent to this discussion but just thought I'd throw that in there. I am an arborist and I do not do commercial line clearance which is just a mechanical removal of branches for X amount of space, nor do I ever desire or intend to, no matter what profit is involved.

You may have an arborist that does line clearance (and you may certainly not ofcourse).... but what he does while he does line clearance is not arboriculture IMO.

It's a notable point. I'm not particularly found of ROW work for a number of good reasons, however it does take a decent working knowledge of aboriculture to do it right and "manage" the impact. To be honest, around here, especially in the rural residential forest, so to speak, the ROW trees are some of the healthiest....they are the only ones getting any kind of regular professional attention, and mostly that's a stretch at best.


As far as what I would charge to go back to it as a contractor, well it's more than they would be willing to afford. Although I might help my old gm this winter just to keep from getting cabin fever.

 

[tree MDS]

Classic prentice.

I had a rather large job yesterday that I bid and figured for one long day. However my trim climber spent a three day weekend in Michigan camping (left Friday). They had car trouble and couldnt get back. HO has been waiting for me since the end of June and I wasnt going to make her wait any longer so I hit it with my greenhorn who I dont even let use a saw yet, and has never roped. Any way we obviously didnt finish, and went back today. We knew the rain was coming and I was hoping we would beat it, but we didnt. I wasnt about to comeback a third time for one lousy 60ft Locust trim so I climbed it in a down pour, and lightning. At first I was scared, and almost came down. Then I thought for a minute, Im not married, I dont have any kids, and nobody likes me. So I finished the tree. Unfortunately, Im still here. Maybe next time.

Strange how looking back those last few lines couldn't be any farther from the truth.

 

[treevet]

Strange how looking back those last few lines couldn't be any farther from the truth.

He had very low self esteem. Making an assumption here but my opinion much was brought on by mistreatment by his father and compounded by addiction.

He knew people liked him (and I am sure many loved him) but refused to acknowledge this because of overriding negative feelings about himself. Very tragic.

I know he was born in Lake Forest Ill. His dad had the tree work for that city at one time. Very very wealthy town. I used to live there when I was a kid.

My guess was he was an exceptional climber.(try to climb fluidly like water flowing through a tree). He was very tough and like any good treeman, could force himself to do things when his instincts told him to back off.

 

[ropensaddle]

Somewhat questionable referring to line clearance as arboriculture IMO. Nothing beneficial happening to the tree. Only entity gaining improvement is the utility and the purveyor of the service. Hopefully the tree does not incur too much negative direction in the process. But it DOES always incur a negative.

Maybe not pertinent to this discussion but just thought I'd throw that in there. I am an arborist and I do not do commercial line clearance which is just a mechanical removal of branches for X amount of space, nor do I ever desire or intend to, no matter what profit is involved.

You may have an arborist that does line clearance (and you may certainly not ofcourse).... but what he does while he does line clearance is not arboriculture IMO.

Well vet I see your back Hey btw, I agree and disagree clearance can be arboicuturally correct! I always attempted to make the trees appear nice and implemented proper pruning cuts. I almost always informed the ho it would be better to remove the tree if my required clearance was going to adversely affect its health and appearance! As a whole though, I agree; it is not arboriculture it is only one facet of our industry but is needed.

 

[tree MDS]

My guess is he was self medicating as much as indulging. Regardless, the kid seemed like he was trying (and doing pretty well), and it's a real shame to see a fighter and fellow treeman go down. Could have been either of us vet.