What's the deal with EPA phase 2

[Landmark]

Just got a letter from local central boiler dealer and he said that classic stove only available until april 15th due to the epa and phase 2. Then only the more environmentally friendly stoves will be produced. I am so sick of stupid government regulations that pad pockets while pretending to protect the environment............Sorry just had to vent.

 

[Idahonative]

Just got a letter from local central boiler dealer and he said that classic stove only available until april 15th due to the epa and phase 2. Then only the more environmentally friendly stoves will be produced. I am so sick of stupid government regulations that pad pockets while pretending to protect the environment............Sorry just had to vent.

I can't speak for any other EPA certified wood stove but our Blaze King (King Ultra) is an amazing piece of equipment. To the point that, if there was no such thing as the EPA, I wouldn't change a thing about it. It is highly efficient, easily burns for 24 hours on pine, produces truck loads of heat, and doesn't smoke (wasted fuel). I really could care less if it was EPA certified or not but the fact is (I hate to say it), the design characteristics that certify it as an EPA stove also reward me as the consumer.

 

[olyman]

landmark,,the epa,,is out of control,,and answer to no one.. just how the environmental lefitsts want it..if they could, theyd take control of America for good,,,and you would NOT be burning wood, youd have a all elec house,,run by windmills only.....that's the part,,the proud epa lovers on this forum, don't get....the stove market,,would be self regulating,,but they want it their way...

 

[Landmark]

landmark,,the epa,,is out of control,,and answer to no one.. just how the environmental lefitsts want it..if they could, theyd take control of America for good,,,and you would NOT be burning wood, youd have a all elec house,,run by windmills only.....that's the part,,the proud epa lovers on this forum, don't get....the stove market,,would be self regulating,,but they want it their way...

Agreed. I have even heard of a proposal to tax citizens who burn wood on the basis that they are polluting the air with smoke. I'm all for preserving nature and love the beauty of it , but where is the common sense in this train of thought? Even on great stoves as Idahonative has, I wonder whats the cost compared to older versions or homemade ones. Are they pricing the common man out and then penalizing him? Just saying.......

 

[Whitespider]

Everyone here knows I'm not an EPA supporter in any way, shape, or form... but...
Central Boiler is playing on fear of "phase 2" in order to sell "stuff". The new EPA regulations have not gone into effect, and no "final" has been announced. It is expected (and likely) that they will, in fact, be in effect by sometime this spring... but anything could happen. There are pending law suits and some other unresolved issues.

Yeah, it's very likely that the "Classic" will be regulated away by April 15th (or thereabout)... but... maybe, just maybe not.
Yes, regulation of this sort amounts to "taxation without representation" (well... sort'a). And it is the same tactic used to "eliminate availability" of several things to the "common man"... drive the price to where only the "privileged" (read that as "smarter than you" ) can afford it.

This is just the beginning... from manufacturer to end user, the new regulations will eventually slap everyone in the face (and wake them up), no matter what your wood-fired appliance. I believe the EPA should be abolished and replaced with something constitutionally acceptable... but, Central Boiler should be ashamed of themselves for playing on fears to make sales. Although, admittedly, they do use the word "expected" on there website.
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[old-cat]

landmark,,the epa,,is out of control,,and answer to no one.. just how the environmental lefitsts want it..if they could, theyd take control of America for good,,,and you would NOT be burning wood, youd have a all elec house,,run by windmills only.....that's the part,,the proud epa lovers on this forum, don't get....the stove market,,would be self regulating,,but they want it their way...

You really aught to do some serious homework. For example, read "Blueprint for the Environment" Them "lefties" want America shut down totally and they ARE achieving their goal!

 

[Landmark]

You really aught to do some serious homework. For example, read "Blueprint for the Environment" Them "lefties" want America shut down totally and they ARE achieving their goal!

Im afraid to read..... blood pressure might spike. Jk

 

[Chris-PA]

You really aught to do some serious homework. For example, read "Blueprint for the Environment" Them "lefties" want America shut down totally and they ARE achieving their goal!

Here I thought the righties wanted to get rid of the gubermint - it's all so confusing. Which are the ones that like this system? Oh, I bet it was the last group who had really high approval ratings - what century was that again?

Leftie, rightie - it's a scam and you're being played. Watch the birdie and pay no mind to the bankers.

As to the OP, it is clear that a corporation is lying to you. Isn't that what should piss you off?

 

[Whitespider]

As to the OP, it is clear that a corporation is lying to you. Isn't that what should piss you off?

Yeah... what he said...

Mark another one down boys

Actually, Chris-PA and I agree way more than we disagree... it's on the nitty-gritty where we separate.
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[Idahonative]

Everyone here knows I'm not an EPA supporter in any way, shape, or form... but...
Central Boiler is playing on fear of "phase 2" in order to sell "stuff". The new EPA regulations have not gone into effect, and no "final" has been announced. It is expected (and likely) that they will, in fact, be in effect by sometime this spring... but anything could happen. There are pending law suits and some other unresolved issues.

Yeah, it's very likely that the "Classic" will be regulated away by April 15th (or thereabout)... but... maybe, just maybe not.
Yes, regulation of this sort amounts to "taxation without representation" (well... sort'a). And it is the same tactic used to "eliminate availability" of several things to the "common man"... drive the price to where only the "privileged" (read that as "smarter than you" ) can afford it.

This is just the beginning... from manufacturer to end user, the new regulations will eventually slap everyone in the face (and wake them up), no matter what your wood-fired appliance. I believe the EPA should be abolished and replaced with something constitutionally acceptable... but, Central Boiler should be ashamed of themselves for playing on fears to make sales. Although, admittedly, they do use the word "expected" on there website.
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Can't believe I'm saying this...but I agree with you Spidey.

 

[Whitespider]

There are no absolutes Idahonative... there are no absolutes
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[slowp]

Oh no! Another EPA taking over the world thread. Shed your UNderwear, don't join UNions, donate no money to UNicef, and take a trip to a warehouse store and buy all the tin foil you can find, the gubmints a coming! opcorn:

I dearly love Olymon.

 

[zogger]

Agreed. I have even heard of a proposal to tax citizens who burn wood on the basis that they are polluting the air with smoke. I'm all for preserving nature and love the beauty of it , but where is the common sense in this train of thought? Even on great stoves as Idahonative has, I wonder whats the cost compared to older versions or homemade ones. Are they pricing the common man out and then penalizing him? Just saying.......

There was also some talk a little ways back about regulating methane emissions from livestock, like here, chickens and cattle. Regulate would mean, inspection/permit/fee, etc. Don't know what happened to that one, but it has come up before.

They just want to regulate every single aspect of your life, and require a permit from them to do anything. there's been an economic war on small old fashioned diversified family farmers for awhile now. Heck, they want to put meters on your own well, all of that.


Hmm, another one I was reading about, energy audits for all homes. Some goof comes to your door, walks around and inspects everything, and tells you you are cool or not, if not, you have to retrofit to their approved standards.

You can't keep up! And *everything* they do they claim is lawful and legal and they have willing order following no questions asked goons with guns "heroes" to make sure you see things their way.

Bah....

 

[Whitespider]

Oh no! Another EPA taking over the world thread.

You're makin' a fool of yourself... that ain't even close to what this thread is about.
But please continue... I enjoy the comedy of naivety.
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[Idahonative]

You're makin' a fool of yourself... that ain't even close to what this thread is about.
But please continue... I enjoy the comedy of naivety.
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Holy Cow! I must be coming down with Ebola or something. Twice in one day I agree with Spidey.

 

[firebrick43]

While I don't like onerous regulation any more than the next guy(I am a libertarian leaning right on social issues, what did you expect when a significant portion don't self regulate.

People are fed up with the guy with an owb burning wet wood and anything else in the door and no chimney. While I have seen Many owb operated well that ignorant people never see.

But then I know two that severely block vision on the road and make life hell for the neighbors.

 

[Whitespider]

People are fed up with the guy with an owb burning wet wood and anything else in the door and no chimney.

People are fed up with drunk driving... but I don't see anyone advocating for banning cars (except extremists).
People are fed up with smut on television... but I don't see anyone pushing to ban the TV set (except extremists).
People are fed up with racism... but I don't see anyone calling for ethnic cleansing (except extremists).
People are fed up with cell phones ringing in a theater or church... but nobody wants the cell phone banned from our lives (except extremists).
People are fed up with candy wrappers littering our streets and parks... but no one is working to ban candy bars (except extremists).

It seems when the majority wants or uses something, strict regulation or banning it is "unfair"
But if a minority wants or uses something, strict regulation or banning it is "fair"
I don't believe it's right to "block vision on the road"... there should be a law (state or local), with an attached penalty for breaking that law (just as there are laws making drunk driving a criminal offense). But the effective federal banning by regulation for all users, because of the action of a few, is flat wrong... and you can bet-your-azz it would never pass muster if the majority used them.

...what did you expect when a significant portion don't self regulate.

I "expect" state and local law makers to address irresponsible behavior... based on the needs of the local (i.e., I "expect" them to do their job... the one we pay them to do).
I do not "expect" the constitution to be circumvented and federal "one-size-fits-all" regulation... it rarely solves anything, and always ends up costing us all more than is necessary... and not just in dollars.
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[Idahonative]

While I don't like onerous regulation any more than the next guy(I am a libertarian leaning right on social issues, what did you expect when a significant portion don't self regulate.

People are fed up with the guy with an owb burning wet wood and anything else in the door and no chimney. While I have seen Many owb operated well that ignorant people never see.

But then I know two that severely block vision on the road and make life hell for the neighbors.

Without becoming too political, I do see your point. My mother still burns her original Earthstove and it does a fine job of heating her home. But it pollutes badly especially when she fires it up in the morning. I grew up in that house and back then, it was mostly a rural area. Not anymore. The road that runs 20 yards from her house is a main route in and out of the city. By the time she gets that stove hot, she has completely smoked out the intersection for all the morning commute to drive through.

When I was a kid, this really wasn't a problem. In fact, I grew up thinking wood stoves should smoke. It is only now that I am older and hopefully a little smarter that I realize that smoke is precious wasted fuel. Now when I drive around and see smoke coming out of someone's stack, all I can think about is dollars and/or hard work being wasted. This wasted fuel needlessly pollutes the environment and ticks your neighbors off.

It is similar to driving my Cummins. It produces a lot of power but I really need a bigger turbo to match the fuel that's going into the injectors. I can blow black smoke all over the road if I choose to. But I don't because this is also wasted fuel, bad for the environment, and really makes people mad. But I see guys all the time running around town blowing black smoke because they think it looks bad ass and they are in desperate need of attention. Every chance I get, I tell these idiots what I think because they will ruin it for all of us diesel loving enthusiasts. Not that wood burners are idiots, but the same is true of the smoke coming out of your stack at home. It's just a mentality that needs to be changed.

Regardless of which stove you buy and how it is designed, buy one that utilizes the smoke. If you see smoke coming out of your stack, you don't have the right stove (or burning wet wood). Let's face it, there are a lot of people on this earth now. Some would even say the earth is at or over it's capacity. We can't burn our stoves like we burned them in the past by just mindlessly sending our smoke into the environment. Not only is this bad for the environment, but it causes more work for the wood burner by requiring more wood to be burned. As with the Cummins, it is our responsibility to communicate and educate others so we don't have extra government regulation. As with most things in life, it takes only a small percentage of people to ruin it for everyone else.

 

[Whitespider]

If you see smoke coming out of your stack, you don't have the right stove (or burning wet wood). ...mindlessly sending our smoke into the environment. Not only is this bad for the environment...

Ahhhh.... this is where we begin to disagree.
The right stove?? By who's standard?? I can tell you my (so called) EPA stove in the shop smokes profusely at start-up... a lot more than my (so called) smoke dragon furnace. Mostly because air comes in over the top, causing a slow start... whereas air comes in under the fire in my furnace, which puts it to blazin' right quick. Neither one "smokes" once it comes up to temp... neither one‼
And I ain't buyin' the "bad for the environment argument"... I ain't believin' wood-fired appliance make cold owl squat difference when industry 'round the world pumps crap in the air 24/7, volcanoes belch out far worse crap 24/7, wildfires burn every year for weeks, we have a zillion cars on the road, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc. The particulates may be unhealthy in certain areas, under certain conditions... but the environment??

...it takes only a small percentage of people to ruin it for everyone else.

As I pointed out... only if "everyone else" is an overall minority.
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[firebrick43]

Spidey, I don't disagree with you. In fact it is IN state law here that a stack must be 10' above surrounding buildings of a certain distance(don't remember exact distance or at minimum 15' tall. They won't enforce it though. Local crackpot down the road will haul away anything for a few dollar to buy meth including tires and wire which he will burn in the front yard(both illegal).

Next door neighbors are livid(I would be to) but have little bitty testicles so I called the cops. Said they would dispatch a car. 15 mins later they call back and say they can't do anything about it, call the board of health. They have to catch him in the act but the board of health is a local doctor that has a practice and doesn't have time?? More than likely he is very effeminate to put it mildly and is afraid as well. Same doctor champions epa regs but won't enforce chimney height violations that would significantly help on the one OWB that is affectionately known as a local landmark for directions as the "Smoker"

On the other hand I am amazed on how many people don't know I burn wood. My EPA jotul and well placed chimney produce very little smoke on startup and none at temp. I have had dozens catch me in the act of cutting wood/hauling and surprised I burn. My chimney and wood pile are plainly visible from road yet most are oblivious. Of course the other 20% of neighbors are so nosey that they know what I am doing before I do.