What's wrong with used motor oil?

[davefr]

I did a little research and it appears that bar and chain oils are either refinery "line wash" or reject hydraulic fluids with a little tackifier additive.

Maybe it's really best to blend your own for optimal performance. Here are a couple formula's from Molakule over at BITOG:

Formula 1:
To a gallon container;
2 pints of Schaeffer's #132
1/2 pint Mobil 1 SS 5W30 or Schaeffer's #701, 5W30 Supreme.
Fill up the rest of the container with Conoco SAE 30 ND or equivalent.
The Schaeffers #132 gives the chain some Moly and Antimony friction modifiers.

Formula 2:
1 qt STP, 3 qts 30W ND motor oil
(for winter use only 1 pint STP and 1 pint 5W30 synthetic motor oil)

 

[Mingara]

Hmmm...

thanks for the response to my question, to which I consider were very interesting reading. There are valuable comments for both sides of the argument so I will try to give you my opinion of them.

To those of you who implied that bar oil is cheap and therefore I should use it, well cost is not the problem as you really would know so consequently I would not even try vegetable oil. I have a 40 gallon oil drum on my property full of used motor oil and its use on my saw bar was one way of getting some use out of it (and getting rid of some of it).

The carcinogenic contaminant comments are probably worth mentioning but I don't have that much exposure to the fumes being out in the open air and all, and I think the amount of vapor would really be minimal bearing in mind I use the oil in the bar only.

The ecological content in some replies definitely have an impact on whether I will continue, but again, I guess the amount of spray that occurs is again minimal so that is something I will think more about.

As for the contaminants causing problems with the saw, well I figure the oil is sitting in a large drum and any contaminants that are present will sink to the bottom leaving the top of the oil practically free of harmful bits and pieces. This appears to have been a significant mention in most replies and that is to ensure the oil is clean.

 

[spacemule]

And that's awl I gut to say bowed teat. (spell checker approved)

 

[bwalker]

Hi Bwalker,

You mentioned in a bar oil thread some time ago that you'd have to give vegi oil a try. Just wondering if you have gotten around to that yet?

Yes, I did, but I only used as few gallons so I cant comment on tis long term use. it seemed to work OK.

Maybe it's really best to blend your own for optimal performance. Here are a couple formula's from Molakule over at BITOG:

I think the guys nutz. Using syunthetic crankcase oil in a total loss lube system is a big waste IMO. Especially when $2.89 Supertech bar&chain works great.

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

I have a 40 gallon oil drum on my property full of used motor oil .....

I guess the amount of spray that occurs is again minimal

The amount of spray is 40 gallons of used motor oil, spread over whatever area you cover while using it up.


Spraying 40 gallons over (probably) many acres won't make as obvious a mess as dumping it in one spot, but it's still out there.

 

[rustyb]

To those of you who implied that bar oil is cheap and therefore I should use it, well cost is not the problem as you really would know so consequently I would not even try vegetable oil.

Mingara,

From what I have seen, straight vegi oils are no less money than some specific bar/chain lubes. But money is not the reason some choose to use vegi oil. There's plenty of reading here on the subject. If you haven't already, do a search on this site. Here are just a couple threads:

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=25220
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=20909

The ecological content in some replies definitely have an impact on whether I will continue, but again, I guess the amount of spray that occurs is again minimal so that is something I will think more about.

As Treemachine on this site always says,....... what you put in, comes out. If it didn't, you'd have an awfully heavy saw. So, if you run that 40 gallons through your saw, 40 gallons will be deposited in to the eco system......well, minus the little bit your body takes in through absorbtion & inhalation.

r

 

[2Coilinveins]

And that's awl I gut to say bowed teat. (spell checker approved)

What Spacemule said, with the addition of :bang:

 

[xring]

If you use the oil on your saw. What do you have to pour on fire ants.

 

[KRB]

Another thing to consider would be the viscosity of motor oil versus that of bar oil.Bar oil is more like a waylube,very tacky.

 

[Marco]

Well 40 gallons of oil is 40 gallons of oil, bar oil or drain oil. It has combustion byproducts, so does exhaust. You guys running an electric saw off a current bush? What happens to the bar oil after you use it? If you have it, want to mess with it and take risks to your equipment & health just think of all the polution you are avoiding by using it in a second life rather than buying bar oil. The bar oil has to get here from someplace, have yet to see a tanker with sails. It takes fuel to refine it, it takes fuel to transport it to wally world and think of the tires that are being worn off that have to be disposed of eventually. Does all this cancer causing stuff dissapear when you burn it in a waste oil stove? Before the EPA ruled the world certian diesel engine manufacturers allowed a certian amount of waste motor oil to be burned in their engines, because it was known that some service stations would dispose of their waste oil in their fuel tanks. So if it can get through a diesel engines fuel system, it should make it through your oiler.

 

[redprospector]

I won't use used motor oil as a bar & chain lube, but with a drum of it I would put a wood stove in the shop (garage, shed, or whatever) and add a drip line on it and burn it. When you get the feed rate right, your flue will put out almost no smoke (less than wood alone), BTU's goes up, and your wood last a lot longer.

Andy

 

[4pwr]

If what you guys say is true,that used motor oil causes cancer. Then are the 10`s of thousands of people working with it many times a day every day getting cancer above the normal rate?

 

[spacemule]

If what you guys say is true,that used motor oil causes cancer. Then are the 10`s of thousands of people working with it many times a day every day getting cancer above the normal rate?

I seriously doubt there are "10's of thousands" of people without sufficient mental capabilities to avoid using dumb and dangerous substitutes for the correct products. Working with used motor oil is not the same as running it in a saw--it's not being flung into the air and coating the user's lungs in most cases.

 

[Big Woody]

I put the drip line in my woodstove in my woodshop last winter. It does seem to make the wood last longer however it also put out a noticeable unpleasant smell in the air outside the shop.

Using old engine oil for the bar oiler works well enough that some who use it will swear by it. I have used it in the past myself before I knew better (used castrol 5W-50 synthetic). Is it the best to use, no. As for myself I can afford the 3 dollars for the correct oil so I dont need to use it. If I had malnourished starving children at home I guess I'd use the old engine oil too.

I've known several different people that have driven their car 15-30,000 + miles without changing their engine oil (pre-synthetic dino oil) with no engine damage as far as they were concerned. They also swore that changing their oil was unneccessary and just a ploy by the oil companies to get people to buy more oil. This just proves that no matter what goofy things people may do it will always work out in some cases.

Most people forget that everything in life is based on statistics.

 

[rustyb]

When you get the feed rate right, your flue will put out almost no smoke (less than wood alone),

Less smoke coming out a wood stove flue if oil is added ?

How is that possible???

 

[16gauge]

Nobody really knows the health effects of using used oil. But their are no lack of opinions...just check the previous posts. That being said, why would you take the risk? The used stuff surely does contain metal filings and carcinogens. Metal filings are bad for the pump, chain and bar...carcinogens are potetially bad for the operator as well as the birds and bees that live where you are cutting. I think this is a no brainer...use new oil.

 

[ShoerFast]

rustyb
Yes, back home, my Grandfather had a huge Blacksmith shop to heat. He had rigged an oil drip set-up , it worked very well, and if the firebox temp was very high, and the drip rate set right, the oil brunt very cleanely. The cat on you car works about the same way, just a very hot spot to reburn anything that your engine didnt.

 

[2Coilinveins]

I've experimented with an oil drip in the woodstove at my best friend's place. We built up a fire and then put a small can in the middle of the fire under the drip spout. Let the can fill up a bit with oil and then shut it off, when the oil started vaporizing from the heat and creating a very very hot orange/blue flame, we'd turn the drip back on and get it set for the heat output we wanted. Had to fiddle with it to get the level in the cup to stay constant and for the heat output we wanted, but it worked. As Redprospector said, it had less smoke than wood, but as Big Woody said it also made the air outside smell funny. Neighbors mentioned it but never accused us. Eventually we dismantled the mess and started taking our oil to a collection facility for recycling.

Maybe a better question would be "what's wrong with bar oil?"

 

[2Coilinveins]

A few things to ponder:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=6665555&dopt=Abstract

And this quote: "Quite simply, many people aren't aware of the ramifications. As oil circulates through your engine, it picks up hazardous, toxic and carcinogenic contaminants. Just one litre of used oil can contaminate one million litres of water," Dr Kemp said.

Source: http://www.deh.gov.au/minister/env/2004/mr17may304.html

Keep in mind that every bit of the oil that you put in your saw gets spread throughout the environment you're working in.

Used engine oil causes cancer in mice after long term exposure, look down to "How likely is used mineral-based crankcase oil to cause cancer?":

http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfacts102.html

Throughout my life I have and will have far more contact with my bar oil than those mice had with that used crankcase oil.

While it might be possible to believe that used motor oil isn't bad, there's enough red flags to convince me that it's sure as hell not good either. Now, to find a study on the long term effects of contact with vegetable oil..........

 

[2Coilinveins]

One concerning vegetable oil(I'll stop soon, honest):

http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/healthguidelines/vegetableoilmist/recognition.html

Scroll down to "Health Hazard Information"