When my log splitter piston gets very hot....

[fast*st]

I have a quick and bizarre question, okay maybe not quick.
I have a splitter that someone made from pieces and parts.
Its running a 18.5 Wisconsin engine but only a 10gpm pump,
I was thinking of upgrading the pump and lines and to a
22-28gpm dual stage. I don't want it to run too hot but
well, it has an 8-9 gallon tank.

Right now with the V10 vickers it runs hot after a few
hours. As noted earlier, there are 8 90 degree elbows
and some wacky fittings. The fluid end of the ram has
two aluminum blocks 3x4x1, One on the extend port and
one on the retract, it looks like there's a pressure regulator
with a crossover tube to the other chamber? The crossover
tube comes out opposite what looks like a pressure adjusting
bolt. My WAG is that in its previous life, those regulators allow
the ram to settle in case some amount of force is exceeded?
I'll consult with a hyd repair shop if its okay to remove them.


The Wisconsin engine has a turbofan flywheel, blows air
about 10 feet out from the engine. I was thinking of doing
a little ducting, stealing some air from the fan shroud and
picking up an oil cooler off a Cessna from fleabay, they can
be had for about $30 or so, are full flow and would be sweet
in the return line. I don't have room to add another large
oil tank to keep up with a 28gpm pump. This seems like it
would cost about $50 to install, wouldn't take long to put
on and would remove a lot of heat.

Any thoughts? and having a 18hp splitter with 9.00x19.5 tires
and budd wheels is cool

-Jason

 

[triptester]

An oil cooler will help cool the oil but does not aid in removing trapped air which requires a properly designed tank. Most residential log splitters only have a 5 to 7 gallon reservoir. Timber wolf commercial splitters use a 15 gallon tank with a 22 gpm pump and a 20 gallon tank with a 28 gpm pump. None of these splitters use oil coolers.

A properly designed tank will put the maximum distance between supply and return both of which must be completely submerged at all times. A long narrow reservoir will be much more efficient than a square cube of the same capacity when it comes to cooling and removing air.

Control valves , hoses, and fittings must all have adequate capacity to handle the maximum flow with minimum friction which causes heat build-up.

 

[fast*st]

This splitter uses an air tank from a big truck welded to the I beam. The
builder did use a bottom suction and return, any other ways that
air would get into the system once purged?

-Jason

 

[leon]

I have a quick and bizarre question, okay maybe not quick.
I have a splitter that someone made from pieces and parts.
Its running a 18.5 Wisconsin engine but only a 10gpm pump,
I was thinking of upgrading the pump and lines and to a
22-28gpm dual stage. I don't want it to run too hot but
well, it has an 8-9 gallon tank.

Right now with the V10 vickers it runs hot after a few
hours. As noted earlier, there are 8 90 degree elbows
and some wacky fittings. The fluid end of the ram has
two aluminum blocks 3x4x1, One on the extend port and
one on the retract, it looks like there's a pressure regulator
with a crossover tube to the other chamber? The crossover
tube comes out opposite what looks like a pressure adjusting
bolt. My WAG is that in its previous life, those regulators allow
the ram to settle in case some amount of force is exceeded?
I'll consult with a hyd repair shop if its okay to remove them.


The Wisconsin engine has a turbofan flywheel, blows air
about 10 feet out from the engine. I was thinking of doing
a little ducting, stealing some air from the fan shroud and
picking up an oil cooler off a Cessna from fleabay, they can
be had for about $30 or so, are full flow and would be sweet
in the return line. I don't have room to add another large
oil tank to keep up with a 28gpm pump. This seems like it
would cost about $50 to install, wouldn't take long to put
on and would remove a lot of heat.

Any thoughts? and having a 18hp splitter with 9.00x19.5 tires
and budd wheels is cool

-Jason

It sounds as if the cylinder has two flow control and relief valves with a pressure regulated bypass relief and was scavenged off of an aerial lift or bucket truck. trying to steal outbound cooling air of the top of the engine is really not a good idea as the engine head has to be clear for proper ventilation cooling.

Small oil coolers with 12 volt integral fans are not that expensive.


If you could send close up pictures of the valves that would help.

 

[fast*st]

I'll try and get some pics tonight. I was thinking about that whole stealing cooling air but the volume that comes off the flywheel fan (14" dia) is
quite a bit, and even moreso after I removed several years of mouse nests.
Seems to be well over engineered in the Wisconsin tradition.

I wouldn't think much air would be needed with a good radiator, and yes,
a thermostatic 12v fan would probably do nicely. No sense adding cooling
during the winter.

I'd also love to remove as many 90 degree fittings as possible and
replace them with sweeps or straight fittings.

-Jason

 

[ziggy2b]

fluid

My splitter uses transmission fluid, just and idea? It has to be cheaper?and operates in that temperature range.:bang:

 

[leon]

asplitting we will go

I'll try and get some pics tonight. I was thinking about that whole stealing cooling air but the volume that comes off the flywheel fan (14" dia) is
quite a bit, and even moreso after I removed several years of mouse nests.
Seems to be well over engineered in the Wisconsin tradition.

I wouldn't think much air would be needed with a good radiator, and yes,
a thermostatic 12v fan would probably do nicely. No sense adding cooling
during the winter.

I'd also love to remove as many 90 degree fittings as possible and
replace them with sweeps or straight fittings.

-Jason

:chainsawguy: :newbie:

Greetings and salutations from my corner of the soon to be frozen eastern wilderness @ 1140 feet above mean sea level.

If the ninety degree fittings are at the valve body ports there is no need to change them as they are only moving oil when the valves are moved-if there is a box ninety degree fitting in a constant flow path such as the pump presssure outlet change it if possible as it is adding resistance to the oil flow but remember that sweep ninety degree fittings are not a problem, the hotter the oil is the more efficient the log splitter is.

 

[fast*st]

Yeah, I'm going to try and get a pic, the hose ended in a 90 elbow(both ends), into another 90 elbow into a T fitting and another 90 turn into the block, 90 down into the fluid end of the ram, so 720 degrees of bend from the valve to the pump. I could easily replace every bit with 3/4 hardline, save for two
couplers between the valve and the ram to allow a little flex. Every less turn and every reduction in flow velocity is just a little less friction loss and a little less heat. I suppose, apply some engineering before brute force. Maybe sandblast or wirebrush the ram body clean and give it a single coat of bright yellow paint to help it shed heat as well.

Loaded the ram with help into the back of the truck, off to repair in the morning.

-Jason

 

[leon]

woodsplitter

Yeah, I'm going to try and get a pic, the hose ended in a 90 elbow(both ends), into another 90 elbow into a T fitting and another 90 turn into the block, 90 down into the fluid end of the ram, so 720 degrees of bend from the valve to the pump. I could easily replace every bit with 3/4 hardline, save for two
couplers between the valve and the ram to allow a little flex. Every less turn and every reduction in flow velocity is just a little less friction loss and a little less heat. I suppose, apply some engineering before brute force. Maybe sandblast or wirebrush the ram body clean and give it a single coat of bright yellow paint to help it shed heat as well.

Loaded the ram with help into the back of the truck, off to repair in the morning.

-Jason

Jason-do not worry about shedding heat off the cylinder it is actually a very good radiator for same. If the ninety degree fittings serve no purpose- directing hose around obstructions for example it is safe to remove them and replace it with a good hose or steel hydraulic line-be sure to secure it with loom clamps sized to the pipe other wise it will vibrate a lot and reduce its useable life.

leon

 

[fast*st]

Okay, think I have the picture correctly attached? Not entirely sure, this is the fluid end of the ram, input fittings sticking straight up.

lots of bends!

 

[leon]

wood splitter etc.

Okay, think I have the picture correctly attached? Not entirely sure, this is the fluid end of the ram, input fittings sticking straight up.

lots of bends!

You appear to have a cylinder with a pair of pilot operated check valves and welded pipe to the cylinder which is common.
The cylinder should have ID numbers punched into the barrel near the base or near the packing gland. the aluminum blocks should have an ID no. on the side of the block or the tag riveted to the block depending on who made the control valve.



This cylinder is from a bucket trucks bottom lift arm if I am not mistaken.

For your piece of mind I would contact Racine and give them the part number so you can get information on the control valves and cylinder-am I correct in assuming the top oil port of the cylinder has the same equipment/valves? can you flip the picture next time as it is actually upside down?

 

[fast*st]

That's the fluid end, and its not upsidedown, that's how it was
sitting in the truck The top and bottom ports are side by side
with a hardline beneath. The hydraulic shop seemed to indicate
much the same, this cyl has the safety that it won't lower
unless there's forward pressure on the other side.

I'd love to remove the 4 allen bolts, remove the blocks and
just put a regular pair of 90 degree sweeps on it. I don't see
the need to have a safety lockout on a log splitter, at worst
if a line fails the log falls on the ground and I get a hot oil bath.
I'd love to decrease any flow restriction before going 3x on the
hydraulic pump. 10-28gpm


Thanks for the info though, its interesting finding out about this
stuff.

-Jason

 

[GRAYSTONE]

Hot Splitter - Cooled Off

My splitter fluid ran very hot when I installed a new 13 HP Honda Engine with a 20 GPM pump. I changed the lines from 1/2" to 3/4" and increases the resevoir from 5 gallons to 15 gallons. The Oil now runs at 120 to 140 degrees F.
I do have a number of 90 degree fittings in the lines. Please have a look at the pictures and let me know if these are ok.

 

[triptester]

The biggest concern is that it looks like the motor exhaust is in the direction of the tank.

Is the return line submerged in the tank? If the return line just spills into the tank it adds air to the fluid which will add to heat buildup.

 

[GRAYSTONE]

Wood Splitter Heat

The biggest concern is that it looks like the motor exhaust is in the direction of the tank.

Is the return line submerged in the tank? If the return line just spills into the tank it adds air to the fluid which will add to heat buildup.

The exhaust on the Honda Engine is actually pointing straight up away from the tank and the return line runs down into the tank about 12 inches so I'm sure it is not adding air.

The Splitter now runs very well.

 

[triptester]

I'm aware that air in the system causes cavitation and eats away at the pump and valve but how does air add heat to the system?

I am not a hydraulics expert and I don't fully understand the why and why nots of fluid dynamics but this is what the experts say.

Why is entrained air bad?
Negative effects of entrained air include:

Reduced bulk modulus, resulting in spongy operation and poor control system response.
Increased heat-load.
Reduced thermal conductivity.
Fluid deterioration through increased oxidation and thermal degradation (dieseling).
Reduced fluid viscosity, which leaves critical surfaces vulnerable to wear.
Cavitation erosion.
Increased noise levels.
Decreased efficiency

 

[triptester]

Graystone,
Temperatures of 120 - 140 degrees may be caused by normal friction and inefficiencies in the system. When temperatures approach or exceed 180 degrees the fluid starts to break down.

 

[fast*st]

I'd imagine as well, make sure you have a big enough supply
line, you can't pull a fluid. Fluids can only be pushed in a
practical sense. With air pressure being the only pusher, I could
see where cold oil won't want to flow into a pump at 30gpm
through a 1" suction line. Water contamination would be a
problem as well, in humid and varying environments, condensation
could well put a fair bit of water in the storage tank.

120-140F is within the optimum temperature range, if the temps
reach 200, the viscosity keeps dropping and its suspect that the
pump will loose some efficiency and convert even more energy to
heat. Too thick of a viscosity will of course cause cavitation and
other issues.

As to air, most hydraulics have an anti foaming component, hydraulics
and air never mix well. Air adds heat by reducing the effectiveness of
the pump and pumping system, pump works harder and fluid doesn't flow
as well, foamy oil has more insulating properties and won't shed heat as
fast.

Waiting for the hydraulic shop to call on big yellers pusher.

-Jason

 

[leon]

wood splittter plumbing

My splitter fluid ran very hot when I installed a new 13 HP Honda Engine with a 20 GPM pump. I changed the lines from 1/2" to 3/4" and increases the resevoir from 5 gallons to 15 gallons. The Oil now runs at 120 to 140 degrees F.
I do have a number of 90 degree fittings in the lines. Please have a look at the pictures and let me know if these are ok.

opcorn: :newbie:

I would change the fittings and hose on the pressure side of the valve body-the rightside in the photografph as the oil is cavitating across the flow path of the valve-the center part of the valve that provides the oil to the valve spool - the piping/hose and fittings should be sized to the valve body ports-the return line to the tank is the proper size but the pressure size is the problem simply due to the tremendous pressure involved and eliminate the ninety degree fitting with a sweep gooseneck with the same size fitting identical to the oil port size and the splitter with thank you for it with thousands of hour of trouble free operation unlesss and only unless the pressure side of the pump is that size-smaller- it will work fine but the pump will have more resistance.




opcorn:

 

[fast*st]

After scoping out tanks, I have a couple restrictions, I can do 11
wide, 36 long and up to 20 deep. That would give a max tank
capacity of about 34 gallons, I would be comfy with 30 for a 28
gpm pump. I have a nice TIG unit someone gave me a while ago,
I've stuck some aluminum bits together but think that making a
tank will be fun, my neighbor has a lot of 1/8 aluminum sheet he
wants to see put to good use, I think that'll make a fine tank.

3" npt suction with 50gpm strainer. 1.25 suction line, 1" return
line fitting with a snazzy lhf filter. Will make the brackets out of steel and
then insulate them with rubber to keep everything happy.

I'm thinking flange mount fittings as I can't seem to find a 3" npt
fitting that'd just thread in with an oring.

-Jason