wheres your money

[MCW]

Most 'employees' are covered by workers comp. for on the job injuries. Likely similiar to your system. However, workarounds exist and likely prevail in certain industries..

MCW, the employer is supposed to pay into an insurance system we call Workman's Compensation or Workman's Comp. It goes into a fund and when hurt on the job, the worker can collect some money and the medical bills related to that accident are paid. That is what I was talking about when I said the rates now almost equal the hourly wage. The rate for a rigging crew member went up to $16/hour. The wages paid average around $19/hr for that job. One guy said he was not going to run his yarder and crew in this state. He would move it to Oregon.

There are always operators who pay "under the table" and do not pay into the system. I think I had one outfit who was doing that here. They paid better wage wise, but if somebody had been hurt or killed on the job, they would have been in big trouble.

Thanks for the info. It does sound like you have similar rules to us it's just that we don't have enough chainsaw based forestry to have many "under the table" operators.

I broke a toe in karate class. They wouldn't even let you wear shoes there. It hurt. I quit karate because they said more toes would be broken.

I hobbled around all that season in the woods. Owie. That's the only broken toe I've had so far.

I feel your pain. I need a knee recon involving cartilage in my right knee from karate a few weeks ago. As you mentioned you can't wear shoes and broken toes and feet are common I've severely bruised the tops of my feet when getting a kick blocked by someone's knee or elbow. You don't realise how much you need good feet until you hurt them.

 

[teatersroad]

Thanks for the info. It does sound like you have similar rules to us it's just that we don't have enough chainsaw based forestry to have many "under the table" operators.

I didn't mean to imply lot's of loggers were paid "under the table". Very little that I know of, too risky. Workarounds have more to do with contracting I'd think.

 

[tdi-rick]

[snip]


I feel your pain. I need a knee recon involving cartilage in my right knee from karate a few weeks ago. As you mentioned you can't wear shoes and broken toes and feet are common I've severely bruised the tops of my feet when getting a kick blocked by someone's knee or elbow. You don't realise how much you need good feet until you hurt them.

You're getting on, time for tai chi instead dude

 

[MCW]

You're getting on, time for tai chi instead dude

I have a completely underrated chassis Rick...

 

[Vibes]

I've never seen the data to back this up but it has been told to me by several of my union officials and several safety guys at the shops that I have worked in over the years that steel toes lead to many more ankle and knee injuries in the long run, than the few broken toes from drop heads in the short run. I'm sure also that chronic knee and ankle problems to a 50 year old tin knocker, are much more of an insurance burden to a company than a very rare occurance of some dunderhead dropping something on his feet.

The only proof I have to back this up is the fact that I have worked at some of the largest mechanical contractors on the east coast, and they are all safety nazi's,and not one of the companies requires steel toes. I have worked in heavy plate shops, fabricating and installing, hospitals, power plants, chemical factories, you name it, and none of them require steel toes.

One time I was stick welding in an ariel lift and a large ball of slag fell into the tongue of my boot and left a nasty burn on the top of my foot. From that time on, it becomes second nature to know where your feet are. I don't even think about it anymore, but I've never had my toes in the way since.

 

[David (saltas)]

I have had to wear steel caps 24 years now.

they only cover my four biggest toes.

I often use the toe of my boot as dunnage when manual handling heavy stuff.

the team lift conversation goes something like. "its ok I got my boot under it you can go and get.........."

 

[Brian13]

Steel toed boots are law in Australian Forestry. Cut or crush your foot while not wearing them and there isn't any insurance company or workplace going to cover you for any money. In fact you'll probably be the one getting sued for ignoring your safety obligations to the company you work for after being told you have to wear them. They are a major part of PPE for a reason. Please tell me how many people you have REALLY heard of that have had their toes amputated with steel capped boots in forestry? I've heard of it happening in factory situations with 3 tonne forklifts running over people's feet but that's about it.
Badly squashed/crushed toes mean no toes anyway as they'll be amputated regardless.
Like I've been told during forestry courses - you can do what you want on your own farm on weekends cutting firewood but if you get employed by somebody or employ somebody everything changes.
In fact I have a hard time believing that any forestry organisation anywhere would allow an employee to wear non safety boots?

I used to know somebody who lost there toe after being crushed by a 9" I-beam. Crushed the steal toe and had be removed after the I-beam was pulled off. Either way there is a point where no amount of PPE is going to help and you are just screwed. I used to laugh when I worked in a factory running a overhead crane and had to where a hard hat. I was moving stock length bundles of metal extrusion averaging a ton give or take. I used to laugh and think what is the hard hat going to do but contain the mess LOL. But if I stood up and whacked my head on a rack or something hard, it sure was less of a headache though. I do think there are rare circumstances where PPE causes more damage than if it had not been used, but when something 20lbs falls on my toe I hope I have my steal toes on LOL. PPE of any kind is meant to minimize the damage, not prevent it. And as others have mentioned if your not wearing it, it can give insurance companies an out to not pay. I have safety toe Docs with a zipper laced in that I used once retired from work because they are not pretty enough. Not a steal toe but does offer some protection. I dont have to worry about anything real heavy falling on my feat anymore, but I still where them. Even dropping tools on your toes sucks LOL. And for what its worth, it seams whenever I drop something on my foot it always missed the steal toe anyways LOL.

 

[MCW]

I used to know somebody who lost there toe after being crushed by a 9" I-beam. Crushed the steal toe and had be removed after the I-beam was pulled off. Either way there is a point where no amount of PPE is going to help and you are just screwed. I used to laugh when I worked in a factory running a overhead crane and had to where a hard hat. I was moving stock length bundles of metal extrusion averaging a ton give or take. I used to laugh and think what is the hard hat going to do but contain the mess LOL. But if I stood up and whacked my head on a rack or something hard, it sure was less of a headache though. I do think there are rare circumstances where PPE causes more damage than if it had not been used, but when something 20lbs falls on my toe I hope I have my steal toes on LOL. PPE of any kind is meant to minimize the damage, not prevent it. And as others have mentioned if your not wearing it, it can give insurance companies an out to not pay. I have safety toe Docs with a zipper laced in that I used once retired from work because they are not pretty enough. Not a steal toe but does offer some protection. I dont have to worry about anything real heavy falling on my feat anymore, but I still where them. Even dropping tools on your toes sucks LOL. And for what its worth, it seams whenever I drop something on my foot it always missed the steal toe anyways LOL.

Yeah I agree. My dad used to say about wearing helmets in Vietnam that they'll slow an AK47 bullet down about 50mph before it goes through your head and out the other side

 

[CentaurG2]

Whites smokejumpers are great boots but they do not have any steel in them. Neither in the toe or shank. According to whites, the steel would get too hot during fire fighting operations. You can special order a pair with either a steel toe or plastic. Expensive boots but they do fit like slippers once the boots have properly broken in your feet. Hose them off at the end of the day and place them on a peets boot dryer overnight. Thoughly clean and oil once a month and you are good to go.

 

[deye223]

Don't drop shtuff on your toes, problem solved.

the kiss principle KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID :msp_thumbsup:

 

[Sport Faller]

I generally wear my non steel toe White's to work and when out in the woods cuttin and whatnot, Hathorn Hi-Line calks if I'm really ambitious, the only time I've sported my steel toes in the last 4-5 years was during the Wild Cow Milking at the rodeo :jester:

also, this might be the dumbest question ever but, does anyone know if a cobbler can remove the steel cap from your boots when doing a rebuild or resole or would it wreck your boots

 

[Evan]

great comments guys

 

[slowp]

I'm thinking steel toed boots should (oh my the sky just opened up with a flood) be required for huckleberry picking this year. The berries are huge!