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SmithEC

ArboristSite Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
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Location
Mathis, TX
With all this talk of adjustments made after installation of a different muffler type, how is it that I've never seen it stated that the idle adjustment is supposed to be made with the chain brake disengaged? Some of us ain't got good sense, and such guidance is required!

Idle was way out of whack from messing with it a few weeks ago, so I cranked the adjustment in an effort to get the chain to move. Got it to move at about 4000 RPMs. Forgot the brake was engaged.

The two cover pieces missing here are removed because they're partially melted.

Should I be able to pull that clutch drum off by hand or does it require a tool?
What kind of damage can I expect to find behind it?

103a.jpg
 
Wow

The is one of the worst looking chainbreak accidents I have seen lately. What model saw is that and how long was it run at 4k with the break on? I am pretty sure you don't need a special tool to take the clutch off. I have heard some people just hit it with a impact and comes right off. You just stick something in the spark plug hole to keep it from turing over. Remember it comes off a different way its not the righty tightey thing they said in school. Hope the bearings and crank are ok looks like a clean saw..
 
SmithEC said:
With all this talk of adjustments made after installation of a different muffler type, how is it that I've never seen it stated that the idle adjustment is supposed to be made with the chain brake disengaged? Some of us ain't got good sense, and such guidance is required!

Idle was way out of whack from messing with it a few weeks ago, so I cranked the adjustment in an effort to get the chain to move. Got it to move at about 4000 RPMs. Forgot the brake was engaged.

The two cover pieces missing here are removed because they're partially melted.

Should I be able to pull that clutch drum off by hand or does it require a tool?
What kind of damage can I expect to find behind it?
Click to expand...



Smith EC

Thats a little scarry looking! Eudication is costly somethimes!

The clutch drum should just slide off, but the needle-brgns look to be welded.

Your going to need to take a small center-punch or something and tap the indivual needles to free it,,,,, then you will know if it scored the crank end too much?

good luck!

Kevin
 
It's an MS-460. Probably about 3 minutes at almost 4000. For about 7 minutes between 2800 and 3600.

I'm simply a homeowner that possibly shouldn't be messing with such things. It was the perfect saw until I decided that it would be even more perfect if I put a different muffler on it.

Are you suggesting that with impact, I might be able to just pull it straight off or might I hit it and then turn it one way or the other?
 
I carefully think out all posts I type, so it takes a while.

Costly education? I can't argue that.

I had resolved to do nothing stupid this year and only 14 days later I did it up good.

Thank ya'll for your responses so far. I'm gonna' go pull those bearings out and will be back shortly.
 
For some reason I can't see your picture, but I wouldn't take a punch to any of the needles in the bearing - no place for them to go and you might cause more damage. You might need to take the plastic brake mechanism shield off if it's melted into the band/drum.

Take off the circlip, washer and rim. Grab the end of the clutch drum with a big pair of adjustable pliers and wiggle back and forth. If it won't come off, clamp the end of the drum in a vice and lift the saw off the clutch - plenty of leverage this way.

Go to www.giftsofwood.com and download a service manual for your 046...


You don't need an impact to take off the drum.. The other response was thinking about the clutch, which is a left hand thread... Damage - likely just the Drum/bearing, and you'll need NEW clutch springs.
 
The brake is still applied, I can see the tension in the spring and release clip. After the brake is off you can remove the drum. I would probably pull the clutch and make sure none of the sprocket needle bearings found their way behind it. You will need a new sprocket bearing. and replace any plastic that melted. Actually does not look that bad in the picture, I have seen worse.
Good luck.
 
It looks like the crank shaft end in the center, with needle bearings around one side, then the drum hub, but the crank shaft is all off center.

Is the crank off center, or the drum? I don't see room around the edges for the drum to be off center. If the crank is off center, well, that's probably not good.
 
I'm not looking real smart, am I?

I spent about 3 hours yesterday trying to get that circlip off and couldn't. Cut it away with a Dremel this morning. This after spending one minute taking it off Friday night. I bet if I had tried it yesterday with the brake off, the drum might have been in a position to where there would have been some space between the clip and the washer.

Pulled a couple of bearings out with needle-nosed pliers. Turned the saw on to it's side and the rest fell out, along with the drum.

I count only eight pieces. I'm thinking that the IPL part description would lead me to believe that there should be 12. Does that sound right?

In this picture, that business you see at the bottom of the shaft is not grease. I wonder if it's melted bearing. The IPL doesn't show a circlip or e-clip or any thing else there.

I didn't know that there were service manuals at GiftsOfWood. I'll check that out. I've downloaded two IPLs from him. I need to PayPal him some cash, especially after something like this. Those IPLs are extremely helpful. It's been on my to-do list, but never remember at the right time.

Maybe I need to remove my brake. I don't like discharge chutes on my lawnmowers either. I like to live life on the edge and this would be the perfect idea.

Or maybe not.

I thank everyone. It's nice to know that someone has seen worse.

Any thoughts as concerns my melted bearing theory?

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-11/1105978/107a.jpg

107a.jpg




edit to add link
 
Last edited:
Like I say, I type slow.

With the brake released, the crank and drum now sit what appears to be centered.
 
I'd try cleaning up as best I could. Scrape off the chunks as much as possible, then use emory cloth.
 
It takes a Big Man to admit mistakes!

It takes a Big Man to admit mistakes, your comindable!

But I also heard that it only counts as a mistake if it happeneds twice!

Thats a good picture, it looks like you can start with about a 400 grit and work down to a 1600 , finish with the finest you can get, to clean up the brg surface,,, if there no huge gouges.

It is my guess that the quick stop brake didnt see much slippage?, it may be ok?

So that leaves you a fairly cheep fix,,,, a clutch, a clutch drum and the needle brg.

Kevin
 
There wasn't much slippage. I guess the brake does it's job.

If lessons learned the hard way are lessons learned best, this is one that won't be forgotten.

It looks like this may not be the most expensive lesson learned. We'll see!
 
Here's what I do, but be carefull...

First TAKE OFF THE CLUTCH (Left hand thread so that means you turn it clockwise to get it off). Then the washer beneath, ]then just pull off the oil pumpdrive

Start the saw, and with you wearing thick leather gloves, apply some 0000 steel wool to the shaft (gently) at a faster idle (about 3500rpm). The shaft will clean up and will be symmetrical. Hitting it with emery paper or scraping while the saw is not running is just going to ruin what you have left of a bearing surface.

You should replace the drum - only about $26 for the kit. I can't imagine the bearing surface inside the drum is any good. Make SURE you locate the oil pump drive wire into the drum notch. Grease the bearing and shaft..


If the chain runs at normal idle, then you have bad clutch springs (heat). They are only about $1.25 or so each, and easy to replace.

Remember to Torque down the clutch correctly.

yes, the manuals are on giftsofwood beneath the IPls.
 
rahtreelimbs said:
Its been a while since I had a Stihl apart. Isn't the damaged part of the shaft and the clutch one-piece that threads onto the crank?

If so, why not just replace the whole clutch assembly?
Click to expand...


Nope... That damaged shaft is part of the crank. The clutch threads on beyond that.
 

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