widow makers

[sedanman]

I was asked by my boss to drop a dead ash so it didn't fall down. It had a pronounced lean and the preferred direction of fall was about 15 degrees off the natural lean, doable.......NOT! Now I see why dead trees are so dangerous. The trunk had so much rot that as I was making my back cut the "holding wood" tore out of the trunk wholesale. A well thought out escape route ensured my safety but I was not comfortable with the trunk falling un-controlled. Is there a safer way to deal with dead trees or or should one just be prepared to run a little faster than normal?

 

[treeclimber165]

Setting a pull line can help a lot. The easiest and more effective way to use a pull line is to set the line in a high fork along the main trunk, then run it down the back side and tie it off around the trunk somewhere above your cut.
I think Spydey explained it best. Imagine someone has a rope tied around your neck and pulls it. Then imagine if someone ran a rope over your shoulder and tied it to your ankles and pulled it. You get a lot more pull using the same amount of force.

You can use other methods that may be a little more effective, but simply setting a pull line will give you a lot of control with minimum effort.

 

[Crofter]

Sedanman. My son had a similar experience with a dead tree. the holding wood let go and it struck another tree on the way down. It broke in two about half way up and the upper half did a back flip and landed behind the stump it belonged to. I had something like it when pushing one over with an excavator. only broke the windshield but it sure gave me respect for dead trees..

Frank

 

[Gypo Logger]

Hi Sedanman, dead standing trees, also called dead snags or chicots, require special consideration depending on where they are found.
Dead snags are harzardous in that they can jack knife if they contact another tree during the fall, meaning they can snap in two halfway up the trunk and fold back on the saw operator.
If they are out in the open, it is generally a matter of just treating it as any other tree. If the tree has lost it's crown and is straight the tree will fall like so much telephone pole.
Having a fast saw and a well defined escape route is your best bet when falling dead snags.
John

 

[tony marks]

i caught one upside my head last wk.never saw it and couldnt find where it broke loose from the tree. but it did.
i measure licks like that by whether i wobble after or not. and believe me i wobbled.

 

[treeclimber165]

Don't feel bad, Tony. Some of us have been wobblin' for years.

 

[Gypo Logger]

After thinking I was the first reply, there were two more posts when I hit the post reply button, shows how fast I type.
Brians suggestion is right for a tree removal job, such as in the city or a fence row tree. In the heart of the woods you're are on your own, or use the log arch of a skidder to help commit it over., or any other of a miriad of methods, although dangerous to get it horizontal.
John

 

[geofore]

deadash

The dead ash made a sound you will long remmember when it let go? I take it you opted for the dash out of there? If you rope to another tree so the one you cut arc's just so far before the rope tightens holding it to fall in the proper path you will have more time to dash and less of a chance of getting hurt. Tie in to the high point on the one you're cutting and to the trunk low of the tree that does the holding.

 

[Pacific]

When you got trees like that if you can get a machine near it its best to pull or push it over when pushing it over with a excavator you have to make sure their is a clear path for it to fall.

The first thing todo is give the tree a little push with the machine to see how stable it is if its rotten enough it will let go at the roots. Higher up you push on the tree more stable it is once its moving keep pushing letting off a little bit and the tree can swing around and land on the machine.

I work with excavation contractors doing landclearing and putting a tag line or pushing on trees is the safest way to fall a leaner or a dead fall.

 

[Ryan Willock]

unless its small I usually bore cut them. of course I bore cut almost everything anyway

 

[Crofter]

That is how I got in trouble with the excavator. I reached up as high as I could, but when i touched it I guess I jarred it and the top broke back toward me and slid down the boom.

On swampy ground, just the shivering as you approach or pass by a dead tree can jar the top off them. I think pulling down with a good long cable is the safest.

I dont envy you tree guys jobs when you have no choice but to get right up close and personal with them.

Frank

 

[bwalker]

of course I bore cut almost everything anyway

Ryan, why is that? Whats wrong with using a traditonal notch and backcut? I have used the open face bore cutting technique on leaners to prevent barber chairing, but I dont see the need to use the technique on a regular basis.

 

[sedanman]

Bore cutting this leaner may have resulted in a dead sawyer! The back cut allowed the tree to start falling in a predictable manner, I think a bore cut would have snapped the trunk more violently. Even if I wasn't trying to make it go the 15 or so degrees off its desired lean I'm now sure the punky trunk would have snapped. Funny thing is I had at my disposal my 6,000 pound pick-up and a Warn winch with 150' of cable. Hindsight!

 

[StIhL MaGnUm]

Ben,
Not to answer for Ryan but from what I have been taught in the past 5 years is that the open face bore cutting method is the safest way to deal with any type of standing timber whether it be a leaner or not.I myself still use a traditional notch and backcut on alot of timber because thats what I'am use to using probally like yourself you use what you use because you feel thats whats needed to deal with the situation.As far as I know all of the training course taken whether it be GOL or Arbormaster or your local Forestry Council they all teach you the open face bore cut they don't teach the basic notch and backcut anymore why I don't know and I think they should,I guess it's for saftey reasons.Hopefully I made some kind of sense out of that answer..I'll leave the rest up to Ryan.

Rob.

 

[Ryan Willock]

Ben, its just what I'm used to. I do still occasionally use the "standard" method but prefer the bore cut because I have more controll over the tree.

 

[cliff-1972]

I bore cut most of the time on heavy head leaners myself have I have tried a coo's-bay on a few of them when there was no chance of damaging anything around it.I like to rig my leaners with a holding line to.It is safer and easier to guide them.Just my two cents

 

[My2cents]

You guys are on track when you call these trees widow makers!
I removed a 40' 8" Dia chesnut oak this weekend. The tree had no top and started getting very punky 8Ft from the ground. I notched the tree 2ft up and proceeded to winch it into a safe direction. after about 20 degrees of pulling the tree it"snapped" and broke into 5 peices. All the peices fell within 8 ft of the stump! I was safe 40 feet away working the winch.

 

[Pacific]

If you can find some one brave enough to climb the tree and hook a line to it pulling a widow make over is the best or if you can get a bucket truck near the tree get as high as you can go.

I got some small trees but tall I have to fall close to my parents house I'am putting a line on them better tobe safe than sorry if I put a load of gravel in my truck I probably could pull them over.

 

[geofore]

dead trees

Crofter, do you think Pacific has had a big top break loose on him? It'll put one heck of a dent in the roof aside from having to scrape the seat clean darn scary noise it makes on impact.

 

[Weatherby]

On the subject of widow makers, there are alot of limbs that are hung up due to damage from the recent ice stroms that have come through. Our university is requiring anyone using our school forests to wear safety glasses and hard hats, mostly classes. A cruise is currently underway to see what kind of damage the ice storm caused, and our Forest Inventory professor is going to be using the data to try and create some sort of predictor model of how ice will affect different species. This storm has finally brought about some much need harvesting operations on one of our forests in particular.