Will one chain saw more wood than another?

[ShoerFast]

Hey look everybody, Rocket Donkeys here..... I bet we'll get some meaningful discussion and insight on the subject now.

You crack me up!


Do you think he can tell his ...

From a

?

 

[windthrown]

Nice ass!

 

[fubar2]

I take it this thread is kind of a how much wood could two saw chains gnaw when two saw chains gnaw wood type of thing?

 

[M.R.]

I take it this thread is kind of a how much wood could two saw chains gnaw when two saw chains gnaw wood type of thing?

Y'all know the story of the Young Bull & the Old bull.
Experence is going to win out most every time.
I figure the older brother took the smaller tapered end.

Little Bro is a bearing in with the dogs a little to heavy,
looks down the log to see
how his brothers doing .....

http://www.acresinternet.com/cscc.n...2f3dc350d0ffb3e788256d890018e291?OpenDocument

 

[fubar2]

Y'all know the story of the Young Bull & the Old bull.
Experence is going to win out most every time.
I figure the older brother took the smaller tapered end.

Little Bro is a bearing in with the dogs a little to heavy,
looks down the log to see
how his brothers doing .....

http://www.acresinternet.com/cscc.n...2f3dc350d0ffb3e788256d890018e291?OpenDocument

I will admit mine was a pretty lame post but I was trying to help Tom stretch his thread.

 

[redprospector]

Back from my little run to the store.

This thread seems to be moving right along so I'll add to it.

The chain chips out wood going through the cut. The faster it is forced to chip the faster it is forced to dull. How much wood it chips out faster than a chain thats not being as forced as much is da question.

Every single second both chains are chipping, the faster chain is chipping more wood than the slower chain. Thats how you get to go whoopie, my saw just outcut your saw, it chipped out more wood faster even though the block of wood was the same size. Both chains cut the same amount but one chipped out more faster. How long will it do it before its dulled and the slower chain catches up is the mystery.


Heres a hint. Those 300.00 racing chains. How many cuts are they good for before the racer takes them off. Is it 50 cuts, 30 cuts, or is it 3 cuts??? I'm just asking for I do not know. If I had to bet its 3 cuts.

How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?:hmm3grin2orange: Sorry, I just couldn't resist.

You pretty much hit the nail on the head with the first part of your post Thall (but you already knew that).
These two chain's are presumed identical, so each tooth will make a given number of cuts before becoming "wood dulled". The faster saw is putting those teeth through the wood in less time so will be dulled in less time. However, it still makes the "200" cut's before dulling. The question is; Is it fast enough? If not, then all you have gained is getting to say "Whoopie".

If the faster saw has a 1000 rpm advantage in the wood, I think that in 200 cuts it would gain enough to leisurly change the chain and beat the slower saw back to the block. But since this is all in theory, I could easily be wrong.

As far as those $300.00 race chain's go, you'd loose that bet unless a forign object was hit in the first 3 cut's.
A lot of guy's will try to get a full season out of a chain before working it over. It may get lightly honed with a wet rock sometime during the season, but they are usually far from what most would consider dull, even when they get re-worked. So it could be possible for some guy's to theoretically get 60 to 90 cut's out of a chain.

Race chain, $300.00.
A winning season, Priceless.

Andy

 

[scotclayshooter]

How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?:hmm3grin2orange: Sorry, I just couldn't resist.

You pretty much hit the nail on the head with the first part of your post Thall (but you already knew that).
These two chain's are presumed identical, so each tooth will make a given number of cuts before becoming "wood dulled". The faster saw is putting those teeth through the wood in less time so will be dulled in less time. However, it still makes the "200" cut's before dulling. The question is; Is it fast enough? If not, then all you have gained is getting to say "Whoopie".

If the faster saw has a 1000 rpm advantage in the wood, I think that in 200 cuts it would gain enough to leisurly change the chain and beat the slower saw back to the block. But since this is all in theory, I could easily be wrong.

As far as those $300.00 race chain's go, you'd loose that bet unless a forign object was hit in the first 3 cut's.
A lot of guy's will try to get a full season out of a chain before working it over. It may get lightly honed with a wet rock sometime during the season, but they are usually far from what most would consider dull, even when they get re-worked. So it could be possible for some guy's to theoretically get 60 to 90 cut's out of a chain.

Race chain, $300.00.
A winning season, Priceless.

Andy

And that race chain has the hard chrome removed so it should blunter quicker but is way sharper to start with.
I would guess a "dull" race chain will still be sharper than a newly sharpened workchain.

 

[jack-the-ripper]

I would have to say, who cares, as long as the job was completed.

 

[scotclayshooter]

When i cut this little lot with the 242XP was it the rapid chainspeed or the dirt and staples that had me sharpening the chain 2-3 times per tankfull lol

Good job its only a 13" bar!
Just short of 2 cords when it was stacked.

 

[belgian]

In analogy with cutting tools for milling, drilling, etc. there should indeed be recommended cutting speeds for each working material, in order to optimize life time of the tools.

Does anybody know if there is such a thing as a table for recommended or max cutting speeds for .325; 3/8 ; .404 in function of raker depth and type of wood ? (soft, hard wood). Or is this asking too much from a chain manufacterer ?
hmmmmm.....opcorn:

 

[scotclayshooter]

In analogy with cutting tools for milling, drilling, etc. there should indeed be recommended cutting speeds for each working material, in order to optimize life time of the tools.

Does anybody know if there is such a thing as a table for recommended or max cutting speeds for .325; 3/8 ; .404 in function of raker depth and type of wood ? (soft, hard wood). Or is this asking too much from a chain manufacterer ?
hmmmmm.....opcorn:

If that were the case those V8 saws with 200mph chain speeds should be dull half way through the log!

 

[belgian]

If that were the case those V8 saws with 200mph chain speeds should be dull half way through the log!

LOL, that's pushing the cork too far into the bottle.

But given a certain force being needed to cut a chip, cutting speed will have an influence on power needed and "standzeit" of your cutting tooth. Don't know the english word for it... Probably for soft material such as wood, the speed factor is by far secundary to the 'dirt' factor that in practical conditions causes the chain to dull, and hence determines the practical 'standzeit'.

In ideal conditions (no dirt, etc), I am pretty convinced that a cutting tooth has a longer "standzeit' with reduced speed.

 

[scotclayshooter]

LOL, that's pushing the cork too far into the bottle.

But given a certain force being needed to cut a chip, cutting speed will have an influence on power needed and "standzeit" of your cutting tooth. Don't know the english word for it... Probably for soft material such as wood, the speed factor is by far secundary to the 'dirt' factor that in practical conditions causes the chain to dull, and hence determines the practical 'standzeit'.

In ideal conditions (no dirt, etc), I am pretty convinced that a cutting tooth has a longer "standzeit' with reduced speed.

I read here once that in clean wood the chain is supposed to self sharpen by wearing down the soft metal and leaving the sharp chrome

 

[scotclayshooter]

Chipper blades should go blunt real fast if impact is the Cause.

There has to be a limit on the speed that a chain tooth will stand before friction heats it enough to go soft but i dont think were near than on a chainsaw.
The chain must travel miles on a tankful of fuel and can still be sharp after a hell of a lot of friction Im thinking wood is just too soft to be a problem.

 

[scotclayshooter]

easy test.
grab a wood chisel and a 2x4. chisel with the grain and it slices like a razor, peeling layers of wood. try to chisel across the grain and you get chips and chuncks that almost just break off, not so much cut or shaved.

Logic would say the chain does not all of a sudden cut at its full depth but must dip into the wood at a angle and get thinner again as it comes out.
Thats my assumption after reading about the way a chain cutter porpoises along the bar and into and out of the wood.

If only Tzed250 would convert that video

 

[jack-the-ripper]

I read here once that in clean wood the chain is supposed to self sharpen by wearing down the soft metal and leaving the sharp chrome

Must have been a chain on a MS361. :jawdrop:

 

[Signoflife]

...the speed factor is by far secundary to the 'dirt' factor that in practical conditions causes the chain to dull...

:agree2: and probably everyone else on this forum would as well.

This is a very interesting thread, as evident by the number of replies and debates.

However, since conditions are never as pure and perfect as the story at the start of thread so eloquently told by Thall with perfect wood and robot operators, I would have to say that a difference in a couple thousand rpm in engine speed that translates to a few m/s different in chain speed or pressure by the operator on the bar/chain that drops the chain speed, should be one of the lessor factors affecting the chain's sharpness when finished the prescribed number of cuts. Albeit that every little thing adds up, I believe that the chain speed would be a lessor factor than other things such as abrasive conditions.

I still think that one robot running the chain backwards would be an interesting test, but not one I would like to try.



So my vote would be both chains would be the same sharpness after the slight differences in cutting speeds, now if this was

 

[THALL10326]

This thread is still going, hot diggy dog its Christmas time in the city baby, Santa's coming to town. He won't pay for any gifts so I hope his fat azz falls and hits the ground.

The above is my new Xmas song I'm working on,LOL

Back to the chain/speed theroy of two of the same exact chains. I think I have come up with something that may have some bearing on it.

I was in the shower a bit ago washing and scrubbing all this mass of luv muscle. Afterwards I went to the sink and put on some shaving cream and proceeded to shave this face of tremendous beauty. I picked up my razor and found it to be dull. It was yanking hair instead of shaving hair. I tend to pull that razor pretty fast across my face all the time. I do so because if I look in the mirror too long I start talking to myself saying things like why me Lord, why did you give me all the good looks and give Space none. Anyway I got a new razor and man that thing just slid across my manly skin leaving a path of hairless beauty. I noticed the slower I pulled the razor the cleaner path it left behind. Was no need for two strokes down the same path.

Therefore instead of shaving fast like I always do I will slow down my strokes and refrain from hurrying and gettttering done, shaving boys, shaving. Will the slow stroke make my razor stay sharp longer, only my face will know for sure. I'll count how many shaves I get out of this razor before I go ouch, this MOFO is dull. Then I will go back to my fast stroke shaving and compare the number of shaves I got out of both razors and the time it took me to keep this thing of beauty beyond compare looking pruty.

:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:

 

[THALL10326]

LOL, that's pushing the cork too far into the bottle.

But given a certain force being needed to cut a chip, cutting speed will have an influence on power needed and "standzeit" of your cutting tooth. Don't know the english word for it... Probably for soft material such as wood, the speed factor is by far secundary to the 'dirt' factor that in practical conditions causes the chain to dull, and hence determines the practical 'standzeit'.

In ideal conditions (no dirt, etc), I am pretty convinced that a cutting tooth has a longer "standzeit' with reduced speed.

I'm with ya brother Belgian. Lets use some simple logic concerning metal and force.

Ever see those car tests where they slam them suckers into a solid steel block and tearem all to hell testing the saftey of the car. They put those empty cars on a track and sendem to that block of steel at 40mph. The car hits it and crunch, front end tore to hell. Now lets send that car to that block of steel at 100mph. Which car will have more damage, the one going 100mph of course. Why, faster impact and the weight of the force at impact dull to the increased speed.

Another logic. A five year old hits you in the head with a baseball doing 20mph. Ouch. Nolan Ryan hits you with the same baseball at 115 mph. You don't go ouch you go to the hospital or possibly the funeral home,LOLOL

 

[redprospector]

Hahaha. You guy's crack me up.
Here's an analogy on the other end of the spectrum. It's not, but it sounds more like comparing apples to apples, rather than crashing cars, and carbide cutters.

My bandsaw mill will cut for aproximately 2 hours before dulling the blade in clean wood. The blade is turning at 5800 sfpm.
If I slow the engine rpm down so that I'm only turning 4800 sfpm will the blade last longer?
No, it will dull quicker. This won't seem logical to those who don't understand how the blade on a band mill does it's job. Nothing else is really comparable to a band blade.
Nothing else really compares to a saw chain either. You have to understand how it works. Just because a person can run a chain grinder dosen't mean they understand how a chain works.

Andy