Woods saw / Race Saw, what's the dif

[timberwolf]

Where is the line between what could be called a woods saw and what is considered a race saw?

If a race saw only needs to make three cuts, if it makes 4 is it a woods saw?

or is it still a woods saw as long as it can be used in the bush all day long.

 

[fishhuntcutwood]

I'm not an expert, but I'd say that pipes and velocity stacks among other things and even alternitive fuels and more aggressive internal mods make a race saw. Just a guess.

Oh, and about $800+ price difference.

Jeff

 

[West Texas]

On the Hot Saw site, I was told that a race saw simply runs too hot to be used as a woods saw. They are designed to run only for a short period of time at max throttle. They are mechanically different too, with tuned exhaust pipes; and, run special fuels. The time of maybe three cuts is the bottom line for the race saw; wheras, a good modified wood work saw not only cuts with more power; but, will last longer as well.

 

[Simonizer]

A good work saw should last a pro faller a year.

 

[Crofter]

Woods saw should be able to cut slice after slice for a full tank of fuel. One supposedly woods saw at a get together appeared to need the chain brake on to keep the chain from rolling at idle. Don't know whether a fast idle comes with advanced porting or not though?

 

[timberwolf]

A good race saw may last a racer a year or more?

But if a pipe is added to a stock saw, is it now a race saw, probably not, it's a stock saw with a pipe. If the carb is modified to run alky is it then a race saw, maybe, maybe not? If the ports are modified, is it then a race saw? or maybe it's once the head is cut off?

Seems the terms "woods saw","race saw" and "hot saw" are a bit ambiguous.

Crofter, the 260 can cut slice after slice till the take is empty on nitro, so is it still a woods saw???

 

[timberwolf]

The fast idle may be a result of an idle so poor that it must be turned up to get it going and keep the saw from stalling. The 40cc hotsaw is a bit like that. Also some of the mods to gain hp at high rpm have bad effects on the 3-4k power, causing spool up troubles, cranking the idle up past this point gets buy the problem. But maybe in that case the clutch could be moddified also so it kicked in a bit later.

 

[Crofter]

Crofter, the 260 can cut slice after slice till the take is empty on alky, so is it still a woods saw???

And how many cuts is that? about eight? Not much wood cutting with that setup unless you have a still in the woods!

 

[Stihl Crazy]

It seems that the modern "woods saws" are stronger than some race saws of a few years ago. Many of the race saws here (NS) are outdated saws from Ontario and Quebec. The woods saws here from a number of builders can equal or better them. One person I compete against has 3 Marcel Vincent saws from the late 80's and my saws (EHP) can beat them when I do my part.

 

[fishhuntcutwood]

What about power band? I'd hope a woods saw is built with more Q, whereas a race saw, running an 18" on a modded saw built for racing would need revs, at the sacrifice of some low end grunt.



Jeff

 

[spike60]

How about if you race with a woods saw, you lose, and if you work in the woods with a race saw, you blow up.

 

[Crofter]

How about if you race with a woods saw, you lose, and if you work in the woods with a race saw, you blow up.

Can't argue with that!

 

[Stihl Crazy]

Don't tell my 088, beat an alcohol piped 166 dolmar, 2 alcohol piped 066 Stihls, and every gas race saw it has ever raced.

 

[Crofter]

Stihl Crazy; the operator must be doing his part! Maybe those other guys should make an appointment with your builder (but don't tell them) Lol!

 

[HELSEL]

It seems that the modern "woods saws" are stronger than some race saws of a few years ago. Many of the race saws here (NS) are outdated saws from Ontario and Quebec. The woods saws here from a number of builders can equal or better them. One person I compete against has 3 Marcel Vincent saws from the late 80's and my saws (EHP) can beat them when I do my part.

There are alot of Marcel saws out there.There are alot of them that have been dicked with too.If the Marcel saws you are beating are running right then they are alot smaller than yours.You say you beat every gas saw you have raced.You must not travel far.


Rick

 

[HELSEL]

Brian, You bring up a good point.Where do you draw the line on a woods port saw?They say take it to the wood pile and run out a tank.How many have done that?I have a 3120 running alky that will set an idle all day but that would not make it a woods port.I see your point Brian where does one draw the line?


Rick

 

[HELSEL]

I'm not an expert, but I'd say that pipes and velocity stacks among other things and even alternitive fuels and more aggressive internal mods make a race saw. Just a guess.

Oh, and about $800+ price difference.

Jeff

Jeff, The fuel and the port work are about the biggest difference.The two piece jug come into the play also.But like you say the price for a (good) race saw is getting high.The crank work,the pipe,the carb is all real costly.But we dont run a stack on any of them could not find no gain.


Rick

 

[Stihl Crazy]

Helsel you are right on the traveling, I don't go further than 1000 kms from home.

 

[timberwolf]

Some times it is hard to tell, and often enough people show up at a "woods saw race" with saws well into the grey area of being "race saws". It causes friction to say the least.

Think it may be better to have "unlimited", "stock appearing" and "stock" if it's just testing chain and opperator. That way the grey areas get smaller.

To test a "woods saw" and weed out the "race saws" more than 3 cuts would be needed.

What are the clues that a race saw is being passed off as a woods saw? or a "modified" saw as "stock"? As crofter mentioned, I also have seen saws shut down very fast after the cut, smelled funny fumes after some cuts, and seen the odd saw show times 25% faster than the rest of the woods saw pack, we all know that if the pack is cutting with same fuel, race chain and ported saws there is no magic that gives someone a 25% edge.

Some things are harder to pick up on, stroked cranks on woods or stock saws, intake and lower side piston modification on a stock saw. If it is a woods or stock saw race what can be done to keep it honest?

 

[rmihalek]

For the GTGs, where there's no prize money, then if someone wins with a cheater saw, what are they really gaining when deep down inside they know they cheated and have to suffer with that guilt 24 hours a day, every day, for the rest of their miserable life. Eventually the truth will come out and that person will be shunned, ridiculed and perhaps they won't get any ribs to eat after the event.

When prize money is involved, tearing down the top three saws is the only way to prove anything. Pull the cylinders, measure the bore/ stroke, and check the specific gravity on the fuel, just like at motocross races.

I think at the GTGs we could do the following: get a shipping pallet and set it down near the log stand in plain sight of everybody. All saws for the class need to be on the pallet. Before each class, one designated person will dump all the fuel from each saw and replace it with the stock fuel, again in plain sight for all too see. Then, when the race for that class begins, the operator will remove their saw from the pallet, and go to the log stand. They can make a carb adjustment before they cut to adjust for the new fuel and then they cut. The saw goes back to the pallet until all saws for that class have been run. If everybody is satisfied with how the class was run, then the results are "official". The saws can be taken from the pallet and the saws for the next class go onto the pallet. Repeat process.