Your Definition of a Hack

[newb]

Hey All, Im curious as to what you consider a hack. I work full time as a Tool Maker for the past 27 years. I also heat my house with wood. So I started many years ago as a wood vulture. Got to know many small tree services. Then I would help with ground work as they were taking down the tree and I was loading. I always watched quietly and admired what they did and how they did it. I then bought climbing gear (no spikes) and climbed trees for fun. Eventually I bought a silky to take up with me and clean up deadwood. After about a year I started doing it for money. I have all my own climbing gear (Kliens now also) and alot of rigging gear. During the season I do about 4 jobs a week. My goal is to retire in 3 years from the factory and do this full time. Ive read the books watched the vidieos and worked with other climbers. So I dont consider myself a weekend hack, but do the pros? I dont have a chipper or grinder but do hire it out. So, whats your definition? Pete

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

If you do work according ANSI standards, carry the proper insurance to protect you, your crew, and the home owner (WC and liability), then your not a hack.
Actually, if you do bad work, you're a hack, if you are underinsured, you're a fly-by-night.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

An arborist will do whatever she (for the chick) can to to do work that will benefit the tree and the trees owner

A tree worker will perform proper pruning and do whatever the owner wants

a hack cuts wood for a living, and has no interest in learning any so called science behind the trade. They're just trees fo crying out loud! I've been doing this for 20 years....

I've said before that there is a spectrum of ethical tree people ranging from the man who maintains a persons property, to the advocates for trees. Many of us fall in somewhere in the middle. (one of the things I like about A'Site is that the whole spectrum is represented here.)

The hack just wants money for work, so if you are willing to learn what is right then you're not a hack.

Ask Tom D. about his days of gaffing and topping, most of us did things "back then" that we would not do now. You fella's have the advantage of learning from out mistakes

 

[Treeman14]

Its times like this when I REALLY miss having Brian around.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I'm sure you could do a reasonable imitation Brett!

 

[clearance]

Newb-I like the line "After I started doing it for money.....Kliens now also". You are a toolmaker so its obvious that you have a fine eye for detail, from what you describe you are not a hack. J.P.S. says that a treeworker performs proper pruning and does whatever the owner wants. What if the owner wants you to top his trees, despite your advice that topping is bad? Pretty hard to do what the owner wants and prune properly now. I always climb with spurs and top trees if I cant convince the owner its bad for the tree. Tree work is a service industry and the bottom line is the bottom line, you are interested, you search for knowledge, so with that do what you think is in your best interest. Guess I'm a hack/treeworker.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

I always climb with spurs and top trees if I cant convince the owner its bad for the tree.... Guess I'm a hack...

Yep.

 

[dayman]

Ask Tom D. about his days of gaffing and topping, most of us did things "back then" that we would not do now. You fella's have the advantage of learning from out mistakes

How? He's banned...

Here's the best definition of a hack that I've ever heard.

Tony Sackett said:

"A hack is a person who does things wrong even after they KNOW they're doing things wrong."

If a person doesn't know any better how can they be faulted? But when they do know the difference the standard changes.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

If a person doesn't know any better how can they be faulted?

It's a proffesional's responsibility to stay on top of his craft!
Ignorance is no excuse for sub-standard work!

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

. What if the owner wants you to top his trees, despite your advice that topping is bad? Pretty hard to do what the owner wants and prune properly now.

Why does the owner want the trees worked on? I proper sale you find out the clients want's and needs vs. what they want done.

I have had people call me to prune thier trees because they just thought they should be pruned. I told them I could but would just be taking thier money for no reason.

People ask for branch X removed because it's over the house, when the rest of the tree has an equal chance of failing and causing damage. I have sold reduction pruning on some of these occasions.

If the tree is "too tall" I expalin that topping will only temporarily reduce the risk and then increase it in the long term, requiring the work to be done again in a few years. Proper tree work is not only better for the tree, but less expensive in the long run.

As for gaffs, i can prune a tree properly faster without then with. they just get in my way.

 

[NeTree]

It's a proffesional's responsibility to stay on top of his craft!
Ignorance is no excuse for sub-standard work!

I agree. "I didn't know" is an excuse that gets you nowhere on alot of things.

You mentioned you have spikes, and a silky. Does that mean you spike on trims? Are you insured? Are you striving to learn more... or content with what you know?

Those are MY benchmarks to hack-dom, rather than what you have for equipment.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Equipment can be an indicator of the type of work a pro does, but a pro should be able to do good work even with primative tools.
Mostly though, guys that are successful buy higher end tools, to make the job easier and to gain better results. But hey, if the homeowner isn't home, he wouldn't know if you used a top of the line chipper or a trailer to get rid of the chips...neither would the tree!

 

[NeTree]

I was thinking of equipment in terms of alot of top-notch climbers I know that had left other companies with all the best equipment and made starts of their own with practically nothing... and still did great work... while they saved their beans to get equipment of their own.

 

[clearance]

Newb asked for opinions, I gave mine. Newb, using spurs is not in the same category as clubbing seals or beating children like some would have you believe. Topping trees should only be done for a good reason like interference with a powerline or to improve a view. That being said a tree service is still a service and people should get what they want. Offer opinions like J.P.S., certainly, but you are there to do what the customer wants. What really matters here is that you can live happily with what you do. Good luck.

 

[newb]

The answers to this thread made me feel pretty good. I dont consider myself a hack nor did I want anyone else to. Being as I have a full time job and am learning a new trade I have spent a considerable amount of money on gear. All the gear I use has come from Sherrill, except for my saws. To answer the question about spiking a trim. I will wear spikes if Im climbing a leader thats comming out but do not spike wood that is staying. Learning, well if your all done learing and feel there is no more left to learn then you would have to be dead. No matter what you know if you have an open mind, you can always learn more. Even if it's watching someone and saying, "I'm never going to do that". Pete

 

[MasterBlaster]

A hack doesn't worry about whether they're a hack, or not. They just don't give a hoot.

 

[Jumper]

A Hack was employer #2, "Jean Spike it All". He seemed more interested in the value of the firewood at times than anything else.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

First time poster here.

I've been seriously debating the whole issue of topping trees if its what the customer wants. In 3 years of being in buissness for myself I've always said "no, I don't top trees and this is why...." and if the customer still insists on having their trees topped i walk away. But lately I've been running in to more and more of this and I feel like I'm just letting money slip through my fingers because often times I have no work on the days that I would have been topping those trees. More often than not they end up hiring some fly by night who has no insurance and does a awfull job of already bad practices. Big peals, unfinished cuts,etc. I'm really starting to lean towards just taking the job in situations like this. I mean at least I'll be working and not putting money in the hands of some one who def is a hack. Its getting to the point around here where just about any guy who has a chainsaw and a half ton thinks they can be a tree guy I really hate walking away from a job only to put money in those guys pockets.

 

[dayman]

During a discussion a guy was asked if he would have sex with someone, unknown to them for a million dollars. Well, of course he would.

Then he was asked if he'd do the same for fifty bucks. Indignantly, he replied, "NO! What do you think I am, a whore?!?"

The reply, "We already determined that. Now we're just setting the price."

Is an arbo-whore a hack? Only you can decide. It's just like being a little bit dirty.

 

[glens]

Ask Tom D. about his days of gaffing and topping, most of us did things "back then" that we would not do now. You fella's have the advantage of learning from out mistakes

How? He's banned...

Ha!  I was thinking the same thing.

Perhaps to ask him <tt>;</tt><tt>)</tt> we'll have to go to <i>that <b>other</b> forum site</i>?

Glen