Your opinion on this square filed ATOP Racing Cut chain?

[Michael]

From having lurked a while on this excellent site I've noticed that a lot of you are really knowledgable when it comes to square filed chains and the way to properly file racing chains. So for my first post here, I'm wondering if anyone who feel so obliged could chip in with some opinions on a specific square filed chain of mine. Is it optimally tuned to allow fast cuts with minimum resistance in logging conditions, or could it be improved somehow? I'm not interested in the competition aspect of racing chains, and thus I'm not interested in the most extreme ways to file or ground a chain, but rather I want something that will be optimal for my work saws. This particular chain is an Oregon 21B 0.325 demo chain obtained from the Swedish company ATOP Racing Cut, and filed using their file gauge. It promises 20% faster cuts compared to a regularly filed chain, with less resistance and about 17% lower fuel consumption. Further info can be found on http://www.atop.se/engelska , look under Technical information.

I haven't measured the fuel consumption, but tests I've done on cutting speed indicate that it does indeed outperform a regular chain by 20 and even up to 30%. The template is not cheap, they sell for $118 each, and of course if you're gonna file both 0.325 and 3/8, you'll need two. But the idea is that they'll pay off in saved time and money.

So what do you think? Is it worth buying one or two of these, or could I learn to file my chains in an even better way myself? I'm pretty new to square filing/grinding, so without being modest I think that if so, it would probably take a while. And maybe whatever improvements I could feasibly do would be relatively minor? And a gauge would come in handy in the field. The way my test chain performs I'm about set to buy one; I just thought it would be interesting to hear your take on it first!

See attached picture of chain:

 

[SWE#Kipp]

I got them both the .325 is my own and the 3/8 is actually Göran the engineers personal reference guide .

I really like them both, I think it's one of the easiest way to get a really sharp and smooth chain , and since you have tested one of the chains you know what I talk about ,,,,


/Kristoffer

 

[Dennis Cahoon]

It promises 20% faster cuts compared to a regularly filed chain, with less resistance and about 17% lower fuel consumption.
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Hahahahahahaha!.....As soon as you touch any kind of dirt or rock with that type of tooth it's worthless. IMO it's a crappy way to file a chisel chain tooth.

 

[Chopwood]

I was thinking the same thing Dennis, however you beat me to it. That's what mine looked like when I was teaching myself how to file. I would think it would be wicked grabby, plus there is no confluance of angles in the "working corner". Search that phrase, there's some good pics of good chains in those threads.

 

[timberwolf]

??? hmm, wonder if it would work for milling?

Lot of beter ways to go about it, also a lot of other work missing if you are trying to make a race chain. If you just want a good work chain then a standard square file job would be better.

 

[Husky137]

Shiny.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

See attached picture of chain:

http://www.arboristsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=38323&d=1159214172

Is this a properly filed chain? On the website they talked about an 85 degree sideplate angle. I don't even see a side plate edge, much less an 85 degree side plate angle. What's cutting the wood fibers?

 

[EngineerDude]

... plus there is no confluance of angles in the "working corner".

What exactly does this mean? What angles aren't coming together as they should, and how should they come together?

 

[spacemule]

What exactly does this mean? What angles aren't coming together as they should, and how should they come together?

http://www.oregonchain.com/tech/ms_manual/ms_06.pdf#search=%22square%20file%20chain%22

 

[SWE#Kipp]

The guides works nice but I prefer to use them with semichisel chains, I tested the 3/8 guide with a 73lp chain and blocked up a couple of ash trees and it worked really nice, good self-feed and good stay sharp ,,,,
But Dennis is of course right, they do get dull if you cut in stones and such !!
When I did some thinning work last winter I used the same chain for 2 days, but it was clean wood !
chain was Oregon 21BP !!
If you are going to cut in dirty wood or rocking your chain out allot then go for the round filing or get grinder ,,,,

 

[Michael]

I got them both the .325 is my own and the 3/8 is actually Göran the engineers personal reference guide .

I really like them both, I think it's one of the easiest way to get a really sharp and smooth chain , and since you have tested one of the chains you know what I talk about ,,,,


/Kristoffer

Yes, the fact of the matter is, I do get about a 20% cutting speed increase in various sorts of wood across the board. I have yet to use it extensively in working conditions, so as to the claim here that it would dull out quickly, I can't attest to that. ATOP themselves of course say it wont and that it will in fact cut longer without the need to resharpen, but I do have some doubts myself as far as the very pointed tooth goes. And Oregon's own advice for square-ground filing that spacemule posted does look somewhat different. Have you been using yours long enough to be able to assess the sharpening needs? And have you done any cutting speed test yourself? I take it you're generally pleased with the gauge and the results?

The 21BP chain I got was a 15" that I ran on a 45cc saw, but I'm really more interested in using square filed 3/8 chains on a 70cc saw. As of now they didn't carry the 3/8 gague, but since you had one, have you tried cutting with 20" and above?

??? hmm, wonder if it would work for milling?

Lot of beter ways to go about it, also a lot of other work missing if you are trying to make a race chain. If you just want a good work chain then a standard square file job would be better.

As described in the Oregon pdf below, you mean? As for better ways to go about it, it would be interesting to hear what improvements you would make and why, as pertaining to a high-performing work chain. And how big an increase in cutting speed would you say is reasonable to expect from a "perfectly" square filed chain? Is the 20% increase that ATOP promises, and that I could actually measure to be correct, a moderate result or about what you could expect?

http://www.arboristsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=38323&d=1159214172

Is this a properly filed chain? On the website they talked about an 85 degree sideplate angle. I don't even see a side plate edge, much less an 85 degree side plate angle. What's cutting the wood fibers?

Yes, this is filed by ATOP themselves. I received it as a test chain, and it is "straight out of the box", before I mounted it on the bar. I do agree the confluance of the top plate and side plate cutting angles seem suspiciously absent, but the fact is it performs like promised. SWE#Kipp, do your chains look the same, or did I somehow get a flawed one?

 

[SWE#Kipp]

No, they are supposed to look like that !!
I have not yet tested 3/8 in longer bars then 16" ,, 372xpg with 16" bar and a oregon 73LP chain, worked nice !

 

[timberwolf]

20% is a normal gain by simply square filing a round chain (full chisle). I have made gains of close to 40% (depends on the saw) from an out of the box round filed chain to a grade C race chain.

To go further towards the racing chain end of the spectrum, or even a fast wood chain, it has been covered many times. Needs work in the gullet cleaning, thining the tooth(in several places), taking the back of the tooth off, get rid of the safety chain bumper rakers, reduce the weight of the chain...

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

It is interesting the the tooth works in a different way than a conventional square filed chain. The only place on the cutter there is a side plate edge is way down below the top plate. Weird.
From the looks of it, it would rip wood like mad! One of you guys want to do a timed rip cut?

 

[timberwolf]

Milling, that was what I first though, little side pull, and less need to sever end grain, lots of self feeding tendency.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

I was thinking ripping because the only edge I can see on the cutter is the top plate. When ripping, the top plate does all the work.