Mahle vs Meteor - MS440/460 Hybrid Comparison Results

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Just for clarification, I was running the saws in the video, and the testing was done at my place. I loaded the saw as best I could, to get as fair of a comparison as possible. The same bar, chain and even sprockets we're used. All I can say is this. I know I put more than enough load on each saw and I know which one is stronger, which one has better throttle response, and more grunt.

Look I can port a hell of a strong 372, but I also know Randy can build a stronger 372, right now. This doesn't bother me in the least, it was bound to happen. All this does is make me want to understand things more, so I can build an even stronger saw. Live and learn, and accepting failure is the best way to learn IMHO.

I've never been nice in my whole life, but I'll do my best to be sweet.:smile2:

Andre.
 
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Andyshine77 said:
Just for clarification, I was running the saws in the video, and the testing was done at my place. I loaded the saw as best I could, to get as fair of a comparison as possible. The same bar, chain and even sprockets we're used. All I can say is this. I know I put more than enough load on each saw and I know which one is stronger, which one has better throttle response, and more grunt.

Look I can port a hell of a strong 372, but I also know Rand can build a stronger 372, right now. This doesn't bother me in the least, it was bound to happen. All this does is make me want to understand things more, so I can build an even stronger saw. Live and learn, and accepting failure is the best way to learn IMHO.

I've never been nice in my whole life, but I'll do my best to be sweet.:smile2:

Andre.
Click to expand...

And I'm 1000% sure that the testing you did was done as fairly as possible. You are a straight up guy, no doubt.
 
Andyshine77 said:
Just for clarification, I was running the saws in the video, and the testing was done at my place. I loaded the saw as best I could, to get as fair of a comparison as possible. The same bar, chain and even sprockets we're used. All I can say is this. I know I put more than enough load on each saw and I know which one is stronger, which one has better throttle response, and more grunt.

Look I can port a hell of a strong 372, but I also know Randy can build a stronger 372, right now. This doesn't bother me in the least, it was bound to happen. All this does is make me want to understand things more, so I can build an even stronger saw. Live and learn, and accepting failure is the best way to learn IMHO.

I've never been nice in my whole life, but I'll do my best to be sweet.:smile2:

Andre.
Click to expand...

So you're the guy who dropped the F word on the restart.................LOL! That was by far my favorite part of this whole thread.:clap:
 
Well when looking at a stock AM 046 jug, there is so many casting errors that it would not surprice anyone that it would run slower than a stock mahle jug, just by eye balling the ports.
But I got mine to run great by doing this...:

1. Cleaned up all ports
2. made exhaust and intake wider
3. raise the transfers towards intake
4. open windows in piston and make a pop-up
5. cut the base off the cylinder
6. open the lower transfers
7. made a muffler mod

By the way I think you did a great job on that video brad. :msp_thumbup:
 
Ok so I'm dumb about all this except from what I've read and learned from these two guys ( brad and randy) and the many many more knowledgable ppl on this site then myself. From everything I have read or ppl wanted to know is specs. So what I'd be interested in what was the compression between the 2 and the port and transfer degrees. I would think these measurements would cause a difference in how the saw reacts to the mods. I'm sorry I don't wanna step on any toes here because I do respect the help that I recieve but I do wanna know the facts. I'm running a am bbc on my 044 now and I'm happy with it ,but at the time I didn't have an option . Now if I had what I have now sitting on the shelf I'd go with oem just because I have it. So I guess to some of us it comes down to cost or availability at the time to get the most that you can or the lower cost. Alright ty and good night!
 
Toad22t said:
Ok so I'm dumb about all this except from what I've read and learned from these two guys ( brad and randy) and the many many more knowledgable ppl on this site then myself. From everything I have read or ppl wanted to know is specs. So what I'd be interested in what was the compression between the 2 and the port and transfer degrees. I would think these measurements would cause a difference in how the saw reacts to the mods. I'm sorry I don't wanna step on any toes here because I do respect the help that I recieve but I do wanna know the facts. I'm running a am bbc on my 044 now and I'm happy with it ,but at the time I didn't have an option . Now if I had what I have now sitting on the shelf I'd go with oem just because I have it. So I guess to some of us it comes down to cost or availability at the time to get the most that you can or the lower cost. Alright ty and good night!
Click to expand...

I have most of the specs at home, but I'll give you the ballpark numbers. My saw has a popup piston with about 190 PSI. It's running a single ring. The exhaust has not been raised, best I recall, and is around 99°. Blowdown is very short, somewhere between 15° and 17°. Intake is very long, somewhere between 83° and 85°. Ignition timing has been advanced about 6°-8°. This saw is built exactly as I would build a new saw for you today. It makes insane RPMs, yet has the torque to pull a long bar in hard wood. This saw wouldn't complain one bit to have an 8-pin rim thrown on it and bury it in Oak. I haven't made a direct comparison lately, but I would expect a straight up MS460 to be even stronger than this saw.

[video=youtube;25Y-ln142vE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25Y-ln142vE[/video]
 
Here's a few details about the AM top end saw.......

Brain's saw was and is a experiment. Weedeaterman.com provided this top end free of charge to use on this saw. The purpose was never to say it was as fast....or faster than an OEM top end. It was to be provided to see how it holds up, and see if Brain is satisfied with it's performance. It has held up so far, and Brian says he likes it's power.

Here is a video of this same saw with me at the wheel. It's tuned to 13,600.

[video=youtube;klhkM9QDfkA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klhkM9QDfkA[/video]

What I was testing by building this saw (at no charge for parts or labor) was this cylinder kit.

Here's a quote from myself in that thread.......

Mastermind said:
It takes more work to get the same gains over an OEM jug. But with the cost difference I still feel like it's a good way to go if a top end is needed. How they stack up stock again OEM doesn't concern me at all.
Click to expand...

I don't recall the timing numbers but I normally put the exhaust at 102 or so.

Here's a link to the thread......

http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/221217.htm

I hope the fussing can now die down.......it was never my intention to imply that these kits were better than OEM......I hope no one took it that way.

Your hybrid is a damn good runner Brad.
 
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I ran a ported NWP BB 440 topend on my 440 and it just never wowed me. Brett ported a OEM 460 jug for me and mine is a really good runner. the 440/460 hybrids are great saws i love the nible feel with the ported 460 power.
 
After reading this whole thread......Mastermind.......I've decided to have Brad built me one of those expensive, but fast
Hybrids!......Hahahahahaha!
 
Dennis, there's been more than enough pot stirring in this thread. It doesn't need your help. Keep it up and I'll send ya back to banned camp.
 
question for the builders

Is there different types of power, I cant help but think that there is more to consider, like the power band .does one saw simply run better, stronger, and produce more torque or can one saw be better at cutting cookies and the other produce more torque to pull a longer bar better in bigger wood. A reference that comes to mind would be comparing a 660 to a 460 in 20in wood verse comparing the same saws in 36in wood ...

Thanks for the education
 
fastLeo151 said:
Is there different types of power, I cant help but think that there is more to consider, like the power band .does one saw simply run better, stronger, and produce more torque or can one saw be better at cutting cookies and the other produce more torque to pull a longer bar better in bigger wood. A reference that comes to mind would be comparing a 660 to a 460 in 20in wood verse comparing the same saws in 36in wood ...

Thanks for the education
Click to expand...

Leo ,the saw may not be a cookie cutter ,but it has decent tourque to pull a 32 inch bar without falling on its face ,and im ok with that ,it cuts what i need to cut ,and has a lot more power than the 440 jug that it came with
 
Dennis Cahoon said:
Steve, I thought the timeout time limit was up and we could comment now?:taped:
Click to expand...

Yep, but the caveat was that we keep our comments constructive, non incendiary, and on topic. I'm really struggling with those rules as well, Dennis. I laughed at your post, because it was funny, ill timed, but funny. The mods are tired of playing the role of Yard Duty on the AS playground. It's probably best to leave it alone.
 
I've read this thread all the way and I just don't see where anything was proven.

Two different saws, two different builders and two different topends.

That's about as "Apples to Oranges" as you can get.
 
Scooterbum said:
I've read this thread all the way and I just don't see where anything was proven.

Two different saws, two different builders and two different topends.

That's about as "Apples to Oranges" as you can get.
Click to expand...

Scoot,

Throw in some bananas, grapes, and watermelon. Yum! Fruit salad.
 

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