Dealer says 441 M-Tronics are junk

[spankrz]

The 70's and older cars only needed a volt meter and a good ear to repair,the new ones need a computer to tell you what went bad. The older rigs can be got running in short order if something is wrong. Why over complicate a simple tool I have a 68' International that is easy to fix and 90' import that is impossible to work on with out a code scanning computer.

a computer to fix a new vehicle? only if you have to get on youtube and look up a how-to video... a "scan tool", which is what i assume you are talking about, is a good tool that helps you diagnose the problem. it does not tell you what is wrong. let's go back to the 60's. let's say you have to set the points in the ignition. volt meter??? won't help much. you need a dwell meter. this is a piece of specialty equipment just like a scan tool. i am not trying to bash you, but the things that could be fixed with a voltmeter and a good ear in the 70's, for the most part, can be diagnosed the same today.

 

[Bowtie]

a computer to fix a new vehicle? only if you have to get on youtube and look up a how-to video... a "scan tool", which is what i assume you are talking about, is a good tool that helps you diagnose the problem. it does not tell you what is wrong. let's go back to the 60's. let's say you have to set the points in the ignition. volt meter??? won't help much. you need a dwell meter. this is a piece of specialty equipment just like a scan tool. i am not trying to bash you, but the things that could be fixed with a voltmeter and a good ear in the 70's, for the most part, can be diagnosed the same today.

LOL. Try diagnosing injection problems on, say...a 2007 6.0 Powerstroke with a scantool. Wont do anything for you.

 

[Metals406]

Oh dear God. . . I'm reading Wigg's poll thread.

Even if autotunes had problems. . . It makes me wonder if some would admit it?

 

[Andyshine77]

Oh dear God. . . I'm reading Wigg's poll thread.

Even if autotunes had problems. . . It makes me wonder if some would admit it?

Yes sir sometime people get locked in on one thing and can't see anything else.

 

[Metals406]

It makes me wonder if I took a saw brand/type somebody liked, and kicked the rear handle until it busted off, if their first reaction wouldn't be, "Ya see there, that saw took 12 hard kicks to break that handle, them other saws would break in 3".

Or if they'd be more concerned with the fact that some Montuckian Yaywho just broke the hell out'a a saw for no good reason!

Them forests sure make it hard to see the trees sometimes.

 

[Andyshine77]

A small world is an easy world to live in, it make things safe and simple.

 

[HILLBILLYREDNEC]

The more complicated the tool the higher the repair cost. How will these auto tunes do in sub 30 Degree weather?

 

[Slamm]

The more complicated the tool the higher the repair cost. How will these auto tunes do in sub 30 Degree weather?

What the heck are you doing here?? Why can't you stay gone?

Sam

 

[Metals406]

The more complicated the tool the higher the repair cost. How will these auto tunes do in sub 30 Degree weather?

Now I can hitch my horse to that wagon. . . Two good things to consider (not necessarily -30° though), but let's settle on something reasonable like -5°.

A carby kit is 15 bucks -- will a new chip cost $150? Or a new carb for $225?

The simple computer board in one of my welders is $200 bones from the manufacturer, and they want me to pay for a new one -- for the 2nd time! That dog won't hunt!

It's not a bad thing to ask questions about a product, and there should be clear answers available.

 

[Slamm]

I don't see any reason to go inside the electronics. Max RPMs under any load is a perfect tune, and that's what M-Tronic is doing.

I agree, I don't think we are going to chip these things like a Duramax or Cummins and suddenly get 150 horsepower, because the factory electronically de-balled them.

In this case, the Mtronics appears to come from the factory trying its guts out to go faster. I do think there is some falseness to my statement, but it appears that it would only hold true to cookie cutting, where 1/10th's of seconds count. I am going to put more time on mine, but I think I found what some call gear shifting and I'm pretty sure I know what is happening. As I think later this evening I was close to, getting it to do it at will, and then to not do it when i didn't want it to happen. You have to view it as a little manager in there, you tell him/her what you want and he tells the fuel and ignition what/where they need to be to get as close to that as possible, but I'll cut all day tomorrow or a lot this week and see if I can get consistent with that gear shifting thing, but even if I figure it out, it a nothing issue in a work setting.

Sam

 

[Hddnis]

Only reason you'll be chipping a saw is to match a woods port. Most likely, with the simplicity of the Stihl system, you won't need to do that, the saw is already doing what you need of it. Ignition timing would be one thing you might play with, but fuel ratio doesn't look like an issue so far.



Mr. HE

 

[belgian]

Now I can hitch my horse to that wagon. . . Two good things to consider (not necessarily -30° though), but let's settle on something reasonable like -5°.

A carby kit is 15 bucks -- will a new chip cost $150? Or a new carb for $225?

The simple computer board in one of my welders is $200 bones from the manufacturer, and they want me to pay for a new one -- for the 2nd time! That dog won't hunt!

It's not a bad thing to ask questions about a product, and there should be clear answers available.

opcorn: Now here's someone who thinks farther than the tip of the bar.....anyone in the know ?

 

[MCW]

Now I don't want to state the obvious here as I am a BIG fan of the computer controlled saws but am I the only one who has noticed that the people raving about the 441C M-Tronics (and rightly so) have all had them modified? Has anybody really put tickets on a stock one yet?
I really want to hear what a stock one runs like compared to other non computerised saws in the 70cc class (sorry if it's been done and I missed it).
If a stock 441 M Tronic runs as well as my babytronic 241C then count me in (except the 441's still balance like crap). For what it's worth my stock 241C will well and truly tan the arse off the stock MS261 I owned despite a 7.5cc deficit.
If computers can bridge a 10cc gap out the box over older technology in all aspects (throttle response etc) then cool bananas...

 

[blsnelling]

Now I don't want to state the obvious here as I am a BIG fan of the computer controlled saws but am I the only one who has noticed that the people raving about the 441C M-Tronics (and rightly so) have all had them modified? Has anybody really put tickets on a stock one yet?
I really want to hear what a stock one runs like compared to other non computerised saws in the 70cc class (sorry if it's been done and I missed it).
If a stock 441 M Tronic runs as well as my babytronic 241C then count me in (except the 441's still balance like crap). For what it's worth my stock 241C will well and truly tan the arse off the stock MS261 I owned despite a 7.5cc deficit.
If computers can bridge a 10cc gap out the box over older technology in all aspects (throttle response etc) then cool bananas...

Check out my thread on the new 441. I gave it to Andre for a few weeks and he did a pretty thorough review of it. There are videos of it compared to a MS460, 576AT and a stock 7900.

 

[MCW]

Check out my thread on the new 441. I gave it to Andre for a few weeks and he did a pretty thorough review of it. There are videos of it compared to a MS460, 576AT and a stock 7900.

Thanks Brad. I did see that thread but must have missed the 460 and 7900 somewhere
I enjoyed the comparo to the 576AT and was hoping it got run against some old school muscle

 

[FATGUY]

I got a chance to use both (albeit for a very limited time) and in stock configuration (ok, with a MM on the 441, nothing on the 576) and they ran like ported saws. Throttle response was impressive and they just felt strong, very strong. I know perception, and particulary perception by some one as inexperienced as me can be decieving but I was totaly impressed with both the Husqvarna and Stihl offerings. I'm kinda drooling to get a chance to run the 441 modded. The true test of its value will come from those that make their living with them but from an enthusiasts standpoint, it'll be interesting to see how it stacks up against saws like Brad, Andre and Mike's 372's. Not to mention the 440/460 hybrid and the venerable 7900.

 

[blsnelling]

Mines ported now as well. I did run it stock against a new MS440 and it blew it away. It was only about 10% behind the 790, about equal to the difference in displacement. That's quite respectable IMHO, considering the reputation of the 7900.

 

[MCW]

I got a chance to use both (albeit for a very limited time) and in stock configuration (ok, with a MM on the 441, nothing on the 576) and they ran like ported saws. Throttle response was impressive and they just felt strong, very strong. I know perception, and particulary perception by some one as inexperienced as me can be decieving but I was totaly impressed with both the Husqvarna and Stihl offerings. I'm kinda drooling to get a chance to run the 441 modded. The true test of its value will come from those that make their living with them but from an enthusiasts standpoint, it'll be interesting to see how it stacks up against saws like Brad, Andre and Mike's 372's. Not to mention the 440/460 hybrid and the venerable 7900.

Actually Nik an opinion from someone such as yourself is EXACTLY what many people want.
We've got guys here that have a line up of 400 Stihl saws in their sig yet constantly rag on Huskys, we have guys who love Huskys that think Stihls are crap. There are people such as me who like all brands but favour certain models. I actually place more faith in people's opinions who don't even care what colour their saws are. I have a hard time listening to people continuosly praise a saw saying it's the best saw on earth when they've never used another saw model, ever...
I know this little 241C M-Tronic that arrived in my grubby little mitts today has throttle response out the box (OK, half a tank in once the computer adapted!) that shades a 200T, no joke.

 

[Jacob J.]

Yes sir sometime people get locked in on one thing and can't see anything else.

That's called "confirmation bias" where people look for information to confirm their existing beliefs and disregard information that points to the contrary.

I remember when the 346OE came out. People were saying "best saw ever", and "Husky can't top themselves after this one." Then the 346NE came out to a similar reaction. Now the 555/562 is causing a similar stir.

I'm still interested to see what the service life on these computer-controlled saws is going to be and what are going to be the long-term service costs.

 

[FATGUY]

That's called "confirmation bias" where people look for information to confirm their existing beliefs and disregard information that points to the contrary. I remember when the 346OE came out. People were saying "best saw ever", and "Husky can't top themselves after this one." Then the 346NE came out to a similar reaction. Now the 555/562 is causing a similar stir.

I'm still interested to see what the service life on these computer-controlled saws is going to be and what are going to be the long-term service costs.

+1