Great Stihl Tuner/Modder

[Simonizer]

begley, I agree, ehp is number one in my book as well as most here. But, in the past, Ken Dunn was just as highly regarded, as was DozerDan till there were some obvious problems with his work..Same with Dennis Greffard, from whom I have 4 modded saws, all strong runners, but he turned into a head case. Dave Neiger has a great reputation, but is quite inactive here. Dean has had a few problems, but seems to have handled them well. Only a few here have given feedback about his saws, and I recall nothing negative in any way. Simon, on the other hand, has an ego the size of the Grand Canyon, which means, if he were on the rim. he'd be primed for a mighty big fall, based on his incredible personna. As well, i'd never pay the ridiculous prices that he charges....a new saw at list plus $, puts the outlay on one of his way way above, say, Ed's, for example. Besides, in my experience, the biggest gains can be had with a simple muffler port, easily done by anyone.

Modded saws:

200T stock, screen removed
335XPT, dual port muffler, 15% faster than 200t
335Cali dual muffler, same as Cali
338XPT, ported and modded by Dan Henry, same as 335.....$200 wasted
Shindaiwa 488 Greffardized nice saw
Solo651SP " " ok, but not that fast
346XP " " great saw still going strong after over 3 years
3120XP " " " " " " " "
357XP ehp awesome
373XP ehp "
372 Walkerized still a fast runner after 3+ years
192T ehp, keeps up with stock 200T in small wood, cheap and at 6.6 lb, a sweet little saw..not a toy!!!
old old Husky 44, modded muffler, wow, it is not far behind the 346!!
044, power tuned byMadsen's and muffler done by me, runs great, in need of rebuild
066 dual port,1995 or so model, 7.7 hp, a screamer for a stocker, why mod it?

Soon to be in transit from ehp, a 346 and a 5100 with a pipe as well as muffler, so I can pioneer piped saw treetop action
and an old failed rod bearing 372 which Ed has and will rebuild and mod if he deems it worthy

A simple muffler porting job does very little. It is an important part of a complete modification, but by itself is rather,...underwhelming. That is like putting headers on a 350. If you can't eat more, you can't sh*t more. If you took this same 350, increased the compression ratio, increased valve lift and duration and installed a bigger carburetor and dual-plane intake manifold, you are starting to get somewhere. We all know there are no camshafts in a 2-cycle engine, but we can do the same thing with port-timing,(if it's done correctly)...but I digress again.

 

[Crofter]

Ed Heard Porting-methinx

Brent; EHP = extra horse power!

 

[klickitatsacket]

First let me say I do not think any one on here has ever heard me tooting my own horn. I do not claim to build the fastest as I ahve never ran any other builders saw other than those local to my area. I have never ran a saw that was built by: Ed, Dan, Grefford, or even Simon. I don't buy other builders saws and tear them down, I do not look at other peoples designs (I have had several oppertunities). I try to learn from others as I do not claim to know everything and feel that there is always something new to learn or at least a new perspective to look at. I have even sent several people to Ed for work on Husqvarna saws as he has a great reputation. Now I do hope to get a video camera in the next few months when things afford it. As for saws advertised on ebay... well you just never know who is going to get one and if they are going to treat it right and as such they are built with a little caution unless the potential buyer can convince me he (or she) knows what they are doing and is going to treat it with the respect it deserves. I only claim an average of 25% gains and try to be as conservative and as honost as I can be. Some of the builders that I look up to are: Cahoon, Spansky and KD. there are builders that I would like to get to know such as Ed and Tommy. these guys are all big dogs and I see myself as the young pup who is just starting to venture off of the porch. Now let's go cut some wood!!!

 

[bwalker]

Simon, I respectfully diasagree with your ascertation that muffle porting is of little value. Some models like the ms 440, 660 and the Husky 372 respond very well to muffler mods and gain a significant amount of power.
I believe by adding a dual port cover and enlarging the existing muffler outlet on a 660 you can gain nearly 1 hp, which is significant on a machine that makes under 10hp.

 

[Mr.]

Simon, your assertion that a muffler mod is akin to only changing to headers on a small block chevrolet is at least an oversimplification. It is similar in more respects to changing an entire exhaust system on a vehicle. Stick with the bikes and saws. Leave the heavy lifting to me.

Can you spell check this for me? ha!

Fred

 

[Simonizer]

Simon, I respectfully diasagree with your ascertation that muffle porting is of little value. Some models like the ms 440, 660 and the Husky 372 respond very well to muffler mods and gain a significant amount of power.
I believe by adding a dual port cover and enlarging the existing muffler outlet on a 660 you can gain nearly 1 hp, which is significant on a machine that makes under 10hp.

Hi Ben, I did not say of little value, one important factor is a cooler running engine. Yes some saws have a more restrictive muffler than others, these obviously experience the biggest gains. Having said that, I am absolutely thrilled that many of you guys think this gain is so substantial. I have experimented with the 372. After I ported the cylinder, (and things)ha ha, I left the muffler stock and ran it against a 372 with a dual ported muffler but stock cylinder. Both new. The ported (cylinder) 372 blew it away. It also sounded much different than a completely stock 372. Of course, when I installed the ported muffler on the modded saw, significant gains were again made as the restriction was now "holding up the show" as it were. Cheers.

 

[Simonizer]

Simon, your assertion that a muffler mod is akin to only changing to headers on a small block chevrolet is at least an oversimplification. It is similar in more respects to changing an entire exhaust system on a vehicle. Stick with the bikes and saws. Leave the heavy lifting to me.

Can you spell check this for me? ha!

Fred

It was a simple analogy. I'm sure you got my point.

 

[Mr.]

Most here look at saw modification as a cost vs. gain. At the same time most of us like to do as much as possible ourselves. The point I was trying to make was; when I bought my GT Mustang the first thing I did was recalibrate the PCM and install a suitable aftermarket exhaust. I ran it on my friend's rollers (Dyno) with the wideband O2 sensor to check it out and I had an amazing 31 HP gain and it moved my max torque closer to my max HP.

31 ponies. Just a shade over 10% gain. I wish I could have realized the percentage gain my 066 had when I ported the muffler and I wish it would have taken only 30 min and I wish it would have been free.


Fred

Simon you're a bigger man than you let on to be, but I won't tell.

 

[Crofter]

I have noticed that Simon mentioned on several occasions that he was "digresssing again". Familiar? I am getting the feeling that Fish might be his silent partner! Now wouldn't that be fun.

In regard to exhaust restriction importance. If the weakest link so to speak in the engines breathing is here, i doubt that reducing potential restrictions prior to that would enable a saw to blow away much of anything. Increasing compression would still be effective in increasing output.

A simple muffler porting job does very little. It is an important part of a complete modification, but by itself is rather,...underwhelming.

I am more inclined to think that internal modifications without de-restricting the exhaust might be the more underwhelming. Oh and put the cam shafts back in 2 strokes or there will be a heck of a bunch of disappointed Detroit Diesel owners out there! lol.

 

[Lakeside53]

Most here look at saw modification as a cost vs. gain. At the same time most of us like to do as much as possible ourselves. The point I was trying to make was; when I bought my GT Mustang the first thing I did was recalibrate the PCM and install a suitable aftermarket exhaust. I ran it on my friend's rollers (Dyno) with the wideband O2 sensor to check it out and I had an amazing 31 HP gain and it moved my max torque closer to my max HP.

31 ponies. Just a shade over 10% gain. I wish I could have realized the percentage gain my 066 had when I ported the muffler and I wish it would have taken only 30 min and I wish it would have been free.


Fred

Simon you're a bigger man than you let on to be, but I won't tell.

Not that I'm big on modding saws, but here a little info that the muffler does make a difference and can be significant:

Not sure of what model your 066 is, but if it's late like mine and only 7hp stock, you can get your 10% by just putting the 1995 dual port cover (available as a spare part), and if you want to be sure of this, put the pre 1996 carb on also (assuming your is later) , although I believe the current carb can be tuned to get the desired result. About a month or so back I posted a bunch of measurements on the factory ported muffler front, and somewhat of a history of how the 7hp MS660 was once a 7.8hp 066. Ben: Not sure you even need to enlarge the existing muffler hole, as the area gained by the dual port is substantial. Sure, I'm guessing some of the minor issues, but I'm pretty sure the rest of the engine is substantially the same.

For those of you that care about the "law", it was OSHA that made stihl remove the dual port muffler from the 066 as it was too loud. The the epa stepped in, and we end up with 7hp today.

Here's the orginal thread where the exit sizes were detailed and many issues debated:

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?p=346017#post346017


Here's the size data etc from the thread :

The standard muffler on a USA post 1998 066 or MS660 has an exit hole of 0.43 inch diameter. Prior to 1998, this was 0.63 inch. In 1998 they also made changes to the cylinder porting to reduce emissions (not sure what they did).

The USA Magnum muffler front has a internal rectangular hole (with rounded ends) of 1/2 x 1 9/16 inches feeding an external slot of 5/16 x 1 1/2.


So, area of outlet:

Prior 1998 : 0.311 square inches
Post 1998 : 0.145 square inches

Add a Magnum muffler front to either : add 0.469 inches... (and it might be a tad more than this).

Yes, the saw winds up pretty good with a magnum front and you have to remove and reset the limiter caps to richen the carb.

The internal box with all the smaller holes in it is the same for all the 066 mufflers.

That Post 1998 size sure seems puny in comparison to the other numbers!

NOTE: anyone messing with an earlier 066 muffler needs to make sure they have a main carb jet of at least .72mm. The "red eye" 066's had a main jet of .66mm (because the ignition limited the max rpm). Stihl published a tech note to say that using the .66 jet and turning up the rpm will result in piston seizure... as the saw couldn't get enough gas at high rpm.

 

[Mr.]

Saw the thread, but please do not mix your fact in here with our biased opinion. We will not tolerate scientific measurement and reason.


Fred

Thanks lakeside

 

[jokers]

Saw the thread, but please do not mix your fact in here with our biased opinion. We will not tolerate scientific measurement and reason.


Fred

Thanks lakeside

Buy this man a drink!

 

[ccicora]

WAIT! ...............ok I just got my drink continue the BS and in a post or two time for round twooo.....or is it three???

 

[BostonBull]

Well guys looks like its time for a MA GTG!! Ill talk to the big guy and see abpout having it at our shop.

 

[jokers]

Well guys looks like its time for a MA GTG!! Ill talk to the big guy and see abpout having it at our shop.

You share a shop with God?

 

[bwalker]

You share a shop with God?

Does he run Husky's?

 

[BostonBull]

Yeah you didnt know that......it explains everything now doesnt it?


We run all makes of saws, God has no preferences!

 

[GAPULPER]

Here's some personal experience related earlier comments posted in this thread. I've had three saws modified by Arborist site sponsers Dan and Dean. Dan modded a new Husky 346 and Jonsered 2071 for me while Dean modded a used 440 for my brother. I found Dean to be very conscientious and easy to work with while Dan was very helpful in addressing some serious problems with the 2071 I bought off ebay. All three saws run well. The 346 is the fastest small saw I know of and simply blows through smaller wood. The 440 is fast and seems to make more power by producing normal torque level at higher that stock rpm. However, the 2071 is the strongest and seems to produce higher torque at a high rpm and gradually trails off so that it is easy to keep the saw cutting in a sweet spot where it really moves through the wood. I plan to compare the 2071 with a good running Husky 394 in stock condition and expect it to be very close in 16 to 20" hardwood which would indicate over 30% power gain with the 2071.

 

[BostonBull]

Good info. Its not too often we hear about saw builders from people other than the cheering section of that builder.

 

[kf_tree]

Here's some personal experience related earlier comments posted in this thread. I've had three saws modified by Arborist site sponsers Dan and Dean. Dan modded a new Husky 346 and Jonsered 2071 for me while Dean modded a used 440 for my brother. I found Dean to be very conscientious and easy to work with while Dan was very helpful in addressing some serious problems with the 2071 I bought off ebay. All three saws run well. The 346 is the fastest small saw I know of and simply blows through smaller wood. The 440 is fast and seems to make more power by producing normal torque level at higher that stock rpm. However, the 2071 is the strongest and seems to produce higher torque at a high rpm and gradually trails off so that it is easy to keep the saw cutting in a sweet spot where it really moves through the wood. I plan to compare the 2071 with a good running Husky 394 in stock condition and expect it to be very close in 16 to 20" hardwood which would indicate over 30% power gain with the 2071.

your post pretty much says nothing except you were happy with their customer svc. unless your saw's were in good running shape and timed before they were sent and timed again when you got them back , or timed against the stock version of the same saw then your telling us nothing about the performance of the saw.

it's like turning the air cleaner cover upside down on your fathers 76 buick electra 225 with a 455 and saying "wow" listen to that moter scream. ha ha ha