Ich tried square chisel

[IchWarriorMkII]

Thats right, I broke down and got me some loops.


I had to break down and get a 30" bar for my 372xp, I needed a big cotton wood bar for the 4 that need to come down this winter. It was also my immediate test subject, as I had never ran such a bar on this saw (And I had it for so long :spam: )

My test subject was a 4' cottonwood log thats my cut log for long bars. It hangs up in my back yard and is getting slowly cut up and turned into saw chips. First was the JGX chain. It had two regular drivers then a rounded rudder link. Factory sharp, I went to cutting. It was impressive, the saw pulled it well and threw chips like no tomorrow. I was pleased.

Then I fetched my CJ loop, and pulled the trigger on the cottonwood log. Then I saw CHIPS. BIG CHIPS. Then I didn't see any more chips...

... I tore through the log already! It feels to me like it cuts with a 30" bar and square chisel like it does with a 24" bar and round chisel. It was a true moment of zen, I have torque to spare when the bar is buried and its cutting fast... darkness fell far to quickly on me.

The next test is the file... if I can put a decent sharp back on it. My ultimate plan is going to get my Dad and cousin running it... then maybe we can split a Silvey grinder. I have seen the square chisel light...and I am impressed!

 

[Cedarkerf]

Welcom to the club.

 

[B_Turner]

That's a peek into real cutting,but the real deal starts with square fresh off the grinder.

 

[bluequill56]

Can't beat the stuff. Cutting bliss! I have to file mine by hand now, but there's a silvey on the horizon!

 

[Chopwood]

It's not too bad to square file if you have good files. It's a lot of money to buy a grinder when a filed chain cuts better anyway.

 

[bluequill56]

It's not too bad to square file if you have good files. It's a lot of money to buy a grinder when a filed chain cuts better anyway.

Really?! I think I'm a decent square filer, but I figured the grinder was more consistent and would cut better so I've been saving up for a Silvey Pro Sharp. Maybe I don't need the Silvey after all? I'm just a casual firewood cutter, so I can spend the extra time to file. I was just going for that little bit extra that I thought I'd get out of a consistently ground chain. Other thoughts on square filed vs. square ground?

Thanks,
Shane.

 

[RiverRat2]

Ohhh Pro sharp II

Eh? hand filing is fine if you have that much time,,,,I usually have a sack full when I roll op on a problem tree job,,, fresh off the grinder and will change them out as needed,,,,now for flushcutting/removing the stumps,,, semichisel hangs in there longer than the square in the dirty environment!!
only time I hand file is if im outa replacements in the bag!!!!!! Time is money when you are under the gun.... Hello??????

JM.02=

 

[Chopwood]

I have a lot of friends that love their grinders. I can't justify the cost for one. I learned how to file pretty well and haven't looked back. Every chain I start with is round chisel. Use it once and start square filing it. I have a round grinder that I fix rocked chains with and start over. To each their own. A decent square chain will out cut a good round chain by a good margian.

 

[B_Turner]

For round, I agree that hand filed CAN outcut ground if done properly.

With square, I don't agree that hand filed has any advantage over my Pro Sharp sharpened chain. In this specific tool sharpening case, the grinder is pretty specialized and does a near ideal job.

I'm not saying there are not individuals that can sharpen a nice square by hand (though I can't), just that it won't cut any better than ground on a good square grinder with a good wheel.

 

[redprospector]

Maybe it's just me on my silvey, but I know that a filed chain will out cut my ground chain. Not by much, but filed is faster.

Andy

 

[B_Turner]

Maybe it's just me on my silvey, but I know that a filed chain will out cut my ground chain. Not by much, but filed is faster.

Andy

You talking square on both? Which Silvey do you have?

 

[Crofter]

Maybe it's just me on my silvey, but I know that a filed chain will out cut my ground chain. Not by much, but filed is faster.

Andy

Andy, I know you have messed about more than a little with chains. With filing you are locked into certain angle relationships by the files fixed angles but these can be altered with the grinder (at least some grinders) so you should be able to get the angles as good as filing. I have seen ground chains that did not have a crisp sharp inside corner and there is not doubt that would not cut as quick as a well filed chain, but that is operator error! I have also seen some very rough and coarse cutting wheels. I know you are not grinding your edges blue like one chain we saw pictured that was supposed to be a race chain, but I am curious about what you feel should make a filed chain faster than anything that could be done on a grinder. ( I am putting words in your mouth here, lol!)

 

[PES+]

"I know you are not grinding your edges blue like one chain we saw pictured that was supposed to be a race chain"

:hmm3grin2orange:

There are also single angle square files which take more time to learn but do a finer tuned job

They are known as chisel bit and quite a few people think they are mis made but they were the original file shape for square.

Virtually no call for the square ground locally because of extremely dirty wood conditions and most local loggers can barely manage a proper round filing job

 

[redprospector]

You talking square on both? Which Silvey do you have?

Square, I'm not worth a crap at round filing.
Swing arm.

Andy

 

[redprospector]

Andy, I know you have messed about more than a little with chains. With filing you are locked into certain angle relationships by the files fixed angles but these can be altered with the grinder (at least some grinders) so you should be able to get the angles as good as filing. I have seen ground chains that did not have a crisp sharp inside corner and there is not doubt that would not cut as quick as a well filed chain, but that is operator error! I have also seen some very rough and coarse cutting wheels. I know you are not grinding your edges blue like one chain we saw pictured that was supposed to be a race chain, but I am curious about what you feel should make a filed chain faster than anything that could be done on a grinder. ( I am putting words in your mouth here, lol!)

Frank,
Like I said, It may just be my grinding. I've been filing chisel bits for 18+ years, and I've only had a grinder for one year (I'm still learning). The chains I'm grinding for work cut well, and the difference between them and a filed chain is slight, but it is there. For race chains I grind the teeth back with the Silvey (practice, and experiment time), but I always finish them with a file, they are just faster that way.
As for what I feel causes this phenomonon? Well, like many things in my life, I don't understand everything I know.

Andy

 

[B_Turner]

Square, I'm not worth a crap at round filing.
Swing arm.

Andy

You are a better man than me. I haven't really tried sharepending square by hand seriously, but I know there is no way I could get in there and reproduce those angles each time, keeping the corner square.

For me it's thank god for my grinder, as it makes it pretty easy to duplicate the angles so that touchup is very quick.

I love square and spent the afternoon making noodles out of some doug fir that I didn't measure but probably was in the 40 inch range.

 

[redprospector]

You are a better man than me. I haven't really tried sharepending square by hand seriously, but I know there is no way I could get in there and reproduce those angles each time, keeping the corner square.

For me it's thank god for my grinder, as it makes it pretty easy to duplicate the angles so that touchup is very quick.

I love square and spent the afternoon making noodles out of some doug fir that I didn't measure but probably was in the 40 inch range.

Sure you could. It just takes a lot of filing to get to where you can.
I'm sure I could get better at round filing if I wanted to, but what's the point?
Right now my main use for a round file is keeping the gullets clean.

Andy

 

[joesawer]

I agree that fine tuning with a file gives slightly better results, only a very small percentage, it is only worth it on a race chain.
For day to day use the grinder gives better results for me. If I hand file very much of the tooth, my angles start to drift off.

 

[B_Turner]

Sure you could. It just takes a lot of filing to get to where you can.
I'm sure I could get better at round filing if I wanted to, but what's the point?
Right now my main use for a round file is keeping the gullets clean.

Andy

I would have guessed that one problem with hand filing square would be getting the side of the tooth really sharp because the file would hit the chassis of the chain. The grinding wheel is like a really short file that can reach into the corner of the tooth and put a really wicked edge on the side as well as across the whole top of the tooth.

 

[redprospector]

I would have guessed that one problem with hand filing square would be getting the side of the tooth really sharp because the file would hit the chassis of the chain. The grinding wheel is like a really short file that can reach into the corner of the tooth and put a really wicked edge on the side as well as across the whole top of the tooth.

Yep, I have taught my son-in-law, and some of the guy's who work for me how to sqare file. That's one of the first things I tell em, if the file isn't cutting the tie strap, you don't have the right angle.
Cutting the "chassis" isn't a problem (as long as you're not gouging it). You should see what I do to the chassis on a race chain.

Andy