Ich tried square chisel

[IchWarriorMkII]

My first attempt and ?????in... I mean filing a chain... went okay. It cut maybe as well as it did new (CJ, I hear its dull off the reel) and my skill with the file improved to 'it looks almost like it should... kinda' by the last 3 or so cutters.

It dulled off its fast square pretty quick, I wasn't surprised... the chain looks like crap. It was still pulling very large chips, better than my best round file attempts.

I shall give it a shot again tonight, see if I can do better.

 

[redprospector]

I think the camera is playing tricks, must be the photographer.
If you look at the picture, the line made by the inside corner comes out just above the inside corner of the tooth. It works well this way in softwood.

Bluegill, I've still got a couple of boxes of the old Pferd double bevel files. I haven't tried the new ones yet.

If I were cutting hardwood all the time I might change my angles a little. I'll look to see if another pic is clear enough to show the edge a little truer.

Andy

 

[redprospector]

Ok, this one shows it a little different. Same tooth different angle.

Andy

 

[IchWarriorMkII]

I've tried about 10 times to get a decent picture to turn out, so I can ask for advice on my filing...

...but its not working so well.

this durn camera just doesnt shoot up close real well.

 

[IchWarriorMkII]

Same tooth, trying to get it to focus... not working so well.

 

[B_Turner]

If you look at the picture, the line made by the inside corner comes out just above the inside corner of the tooth. It works well this way in softwood.


Andy

This surprises me. I've always been taught to avoid having the corner too high, and that if one had to err it was better to be too low. A little beak cuts okay but doesn't last as long, whereas the corner too high doesn't peel the chip as well.

 

[redprospector]

This surprises me. I've always been taught to avoid having the corner too high, and that if one had to err it was better to be too low. A little beak cuts okay but doesn't last as long, whereas the corner too high doesn't peel the chip as well.

Don't be surprised, I'm not getting across to you what I want to say (which isn't unusual for me).
I'm not talking about the working corner of the tooth (where the outside of the side plate and the top of the tooth meet), but the inside corner (where the bottom of the top plate, and the inside of the side plate meet). This "inside" corner can be manipulated some for different edges. The "outside" corner is critical. Get your file too high, and it just won't cut, get the file too low and it will cut ok for a few minutes.

Andy

 

[redprospector]

Same tooth, trying to get it to focus... not working so well.

Ich,
It's hard to tell from the pic's, but it looks like you might be just a tiny bit low in the outside corner with your file. If the tooth has a beak, where the top plate is protruding over the side, raise the file a little.

I don't know what you have for a camera, but try taking a pic at a distance it will focus, and crop it to the tooth you want to show.

Andy

 

[IchWarriorMkII]

Its got a close setting, but still didn't turn out well. I ran the batteries dead trying to get a good shot.

I do have a bit of a beak, Im working on holding the file a little higher...

Second time filing, things are looking more consistent... but need fine tuning.

 

[manual]

Looks good guys, My saw is out in the truck or I would take a pic of what I did.

Tree Co,
My wife would kill me If I laid a chain on the arm of my chair.

 

[manual]

Well I guess she wouldn't go for the USG being bolted to our kitchen table!








Just kidding of course. That is not a chair in the photo. The chain is resting on my knee and what must have been the cleanest pair of jeans I own.

Oh That makes better sence,
Looks like I am going to have to go lower on my outside side plate.

 

[redprospector]

My wife would kill me If I laid a chain on the arm of my chair.

Haha. I put a jug & piston on a saw last winter on the coffee table. It was snowing hard, and I didn't want to go outside so I fired it up in the living room. My wife took cover.

Andy

 

[B_Turner]

Don't be surprised, I'm not getting across to you what I want to say (which isn't unusual for me).
I'm not talking about the working corner of the tooth (where the outside of the side plate and the top of the tooth meet), but the inside corner (where the bottom of the top plate, and the inside of the side plate meet). This "inside" corner can be manipulated some for different edges. The "outside" corner is critical. Get your file too high, and it just won't cut, get the file too low and it will cut ok for a few minutes.

Andy

Gotcha. I thought you meant the working corner. I've have never paid much attention to the where the inside corner is, and next time I sharpen I'll check it out and start thinking about it. Using wood cutting tools is what I do, so I find understanding all I can about the way tools cut wood interesting and useful.

 

[B_Turner]

Its got a close setting, but still didn't turn out well. I ran the batteries dead trying to get a good shot.

I do have a bit of a beak, Im working on holding the file a little higher...

Second time filing, things are looking more consistent... but need fine tuning.

You probably already do this, but a very useful technique to help when sharpening an unfamiliar tool is to paint the inside surface with a sharpie. Then take a file stroke or two and see exactly where you are removing material. Can be very enlightening.

 

[redprospector]

You probably already do this, but a very useful technique to help when sharpening an unfamiliar tool is to paint the inside surface with a sharpie. Then take a file stroke or two and see exactly where you are removing material. Can be very enlightening.

Now that might just be a good idea.
I'll have to try it on some of my experimental filing.

Andy

 

[sneno77]

Another "noob" square wannabe chime'n in. My dad has been trying to coach me on my square filing, but it's a work in progress. Here's a shot of factory fresh Oregon square for those of you wanting to see what the factory angle looks like (well, if you can tell that from my attempt at photography).

 

[redprospector]

Another "noob" square wannabe chime'n in. My dad has been trying to coach me on my square filing, but it's a work in progress. Here's a shot of factory fresh Oregon square for those of you wanting to see what the factory angle looks like (well, if you can tell that from my attempt at photography).

Thank's sneno,
I hope this puts our pic's togeather.
You can see my top plate is a little less steep than factory, and my side plate angles slightly forward. This makes for a more agressive cutting angle, and can be used with a higher raker. Making the tooth cut less depth per pass but maintaining a higher rpm in the cut.

Andy

 

[sneno77]

Looks great by my standards, RP. I really have no logical reason to use square, but it's another one of those "saw related" topics that I've just got to get proficient at.

 

[B_Turner]

Does your camera have a 'close up' setting? Mine does, but I still have a hard time getting good closeups.

I have a lot of old chains that were used when new until dull...and then some, and then hung on a nail. Attached is a photo of one I was square grinding using a Stihl USG with the Square Grinding attachment.

I'm not picking on TreeCo, just want to take advantage of his well done photo to make a point.

I am in a minority that feels that except in dirty wood, square ground chisel chain (especially Stihl) doesn't last as bad as many folks say as compared to round ground chisel chain. (Semi chisel lasts much longer of course.)

And it cuts so much faster and easier on me that I use it about 95 percent of the time, with the other 5 percent semi chisel. Especially on really long bars, where it is a godsend.

But one thing that is more important to square (but important for all chisel chain) is that once it quits cutting well, replace it with a fresh chain (or file it in the field if you will) because the tips go away a little quicker than round ground and it makes resharpening take longer and waste tooth. If you look at this pic, you can see that this chain was used well after it was dull by the rounded teeth tips on the left side of the chain. In addition to no longer cutting worth a toot, the chain and bar start running very hot - cooking sap etc on the chain and screwing up the lubrication cycle. A sharp chain is usually a very clean chain and cool chain.

 

[Crofter]

Looks real nice AND fast Andy;

If the chain self feeds with a low angle of attack like yours will, you dont have to waste horsepower between bar and chain to force it into the wood. It will also choose to cut itself a narrower kerf than the factory angles will. Your angles are probably approaching as shallow ( tender ) as you can go before you start to loose the edge on knots etc. I will see if I can hunt up a pic of a chain I did with extreme angles where the side cutting edge collapsed. Factory angles of the cutting edges are closer to 45 and I bet yours are nearer to 30 deg. Enough to make at least 10% faster than factory at least.