DIY E0 Pump Gas

I've found lots of threads expressing concern/disdain over the ethanol in pump gas. Here's an old trick of removing it from fuel.....I wasn't sure how many of you were aware of this so I found a link to post....

Modelgasboats.com - RC Boats Magazine - "How Too" remove ALCOHOL from pump gas ....

I wonder how much octane would be removed.

hmmmm

blsnelling said:

I wonder how much octane would be removed.

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Away from the world of chainsaws, 2-stroke tuners typically agree that one needs some sort of expansion chamber exhaust to create enough BMEP (Brake Mean Effective Pressure) to cause detonation as a result of an octane deficiency(at pump gas levels). Most of us don't mess with saws that have pipes....so it shouldn't be an issue.

Conversely, it's also possible to cause enough heat to experience 'pre-ignition' with even high octane race fuels.

blsnelling said:

I wonder how much octane would be removed.

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This has been around as long as gasahol and in the early days worked very well on the mid grade which got its 2pts mostly from the ethanol. Today I wood think the octane rating would decrease esp in 87 but across the grades.

so it would be best to use premium to start with... or look for a local airstrip with a pay at the pump for 100LL AV gas...

It has been posted on here that this will not remove all the ethanol. Not sure how true that is, but what will happen is you will lower the octane of your remaining gas.

Ethanol is a higher octane ~108, and is added to a fuel that is less than the advertised rating of 89 (mid-grade). So the gas they start w/ is less than 89, and they add the 10% ethanol of 108 octane to make it up to the 89 rating. If you remove all ethanol you are back down to the starting point. of <89.

I am no chemist and will assume you can average octane ratings and that there is no chemical reaction to consider that would alter my calculations.... but if you:

Start w/ 93 you get 91.5
Start w/ 89 you get 87.0
Start w/ 87 you get 84.75



dw

dwraisor said:

It has been posted on here that this will not remove all the ethanol. Not sure how true that is, but what will happen is you will lower the octane of your remaining gas.

Ethanol is a higher octane ~108, and is added to a fuel that is less than the advertised rating of 89 (mid-grade). So the gas they start w/ is less than 89, and they add the 10% ethanol of 108 octane to make it up to the 89 rating. If you remove all ethanol you are back down to the starting point. of <89.

I am no chemist and will assume you can average octane ratings and that there is no chemical reaction to consider that would alter my calculations.... but if you:

Start w/ 93 you get 91.5
Start w/ 89 you get 87.0
Start w/ 87 you get 84.75



dw

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very interesting. if your calculations are correct, i think i can live with 91.5 in order to save my fuel system some hardships.

chopperfreak2k1 said:

very interesting. if your calculations are correct, i think i can live with 91.5 in order to save my fuel system some hardships.

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Well it is based on a lot of assumptions... that the octane rating can be averaged, that the water method pulls 100% of the ethanal from the mix.

We all know what happens whe we assume we tend to make an A$$ out of U & ME

dw

Water can also be absorbed into the gasoline in small quantities. By mixing the ethanol fuel with water and shaking - you are not only pulling ethanol out of the water - you are also saturating the gasoline portion with water. Gasoline can hold water in suspension the same way that air can hold water vapor in supsension - and with a drop in temperature the water could come back out of suspension from the gasoline that you have created. It is possible that this water could start to rust fuel tanks or corrode parts just like the ethanol fuel does.

Before you use this "stripped" gasoline in your engine - put a sample in the freezer and see if any of the water comes out of the gasoline when the fuel is cooled off.

oneoldbanjo said:

Water can also be absorbed into the gasoline in small quantities. By mixing the ethanol fuel with water and shaking - you are not only pulling ethanol out of the water - you are also saturating the gasoline portion with water. Gasoline can hold water in suspension the same way that air can hold water vapor in supsension - and with a drop in temperature the water could come back out of suspension from the gasoline that you have created. It is possible that this water could start to rust fuel tanks or corrode parts just like the ethanol fuel does.

Before you use this "stripped" gasoline in your engine - put a sample in the freezer and see if any of the water comes out of the gasoline when the fuel is cooled off.

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The problems with this method I think have very little or nothing to do with adding more water than was there before. The gasoline arrives tru a pipeline separated by a slug of water. Anything added after that point and before you pump it may or may not be water soluble. Depending on its specific gravity and water saturation point it may or may not fall out of suspension. If it does fall out you have not only removed the water but that chemical as well. I'm not trying to give advise here, just keep it real.

Ive done basicly the same thing as a test to see the % of ethanol in gas. Its real simple to do. After you shake it up, and the fuel mix and water seperate back out, the gas looks pretty pure. Im not saying there is no moisture in it, But just by looking with the human eye, there is no water in it. I've thought about this process many times, and just putting a drain in the bottom of a tapered jug to drain the water out. I since found a station out in the sticks less than 5 miles from my house that has 93 non ethanol, so I never got around to trying it. I hear they are in the process of going 15% ethanol now,,, so Ive herd.

So let me get this straight....in order to avoid the effects of water in my gas....I should put water in my gas? :msp_thumbdn:

I think Ill pass on that idea and stick with a good mix oil that has a stabilizer in it.

openloop said:

So let me get this straight....in order to avoid the effects of water in my gas....I should put water in my gas? :msp_thumbdn:

I think Ill pass on that idea and stick with a good mix oil that has a stabilizer in it.

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youd be surprised if ya seen it. Makes me wanna go get some ethanol gas and make a video since its raining and im off work and bored. :smile2:

komatsuvarna said:

youd be surprised if ya seen it. Makes me wanna go get some ethanol gas and make a video since its raining and im off work and bored. :smile2:

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Im sure its a neat trick.... I just havent had ANY problems with E-10 after its been mixed with the Husqvarna oil and stored in an airtight can.

openloop said:

Im sure its a neat trick.... I just havent had ANY problems with E-10 after its been mixed with the Husqvarna oil and stored in an airtight can.

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I haven't either, and run it for ~3 years. What about when it goes to 15 or 20% though?

openloop said:

So let me get this straight....in order to avoid the effects of water in my gas....I should put water in my gas?

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Seems odd, but I have done this on small amounts to test to see if the gas is any ethanol i=n it. I use a 20 oz water bottle. Fill w/ water to a lin on the bottle then add about the same amount of gas... shake and let sit. When the 2 seperate, the water line will have risen if the gas is E-xx. I still have the last bottle, I think I'll throw it in the freezer tonight to see what happens.

Since water/gas do not mix the seperate like oil and water. Alcohol (ethanol or any other form) however will mix w/ gas and it will also mix with water essentially bonding the all 3. If you have ever used gas-dry to get water out of a boat or auto fuel tank, it si really just alcohol. By increasing the amount of water in the mix, the alcohol can no longer suspend the water in the gas. The water/alcohol solution falls out and the gas floats to the top. Like I said I do not think it is 100% effective... Would be an interesting test to see if someone can take a set amount of pure gas, add some alcohol, then pull it back out with the water trick...

I also found a die tester on the net that turns the gas a color if there is ethanol present, and sinks tot he bottom if not (my guess is it is simply food coloring that mixes w/ the ethanol).

dw

If you did this trick to E15 or E20 you would be removing a large volume of the "gasoline" you purchased, along with a lot of its octane rating.

Its been a while since I've seen any pumps with a precentage of ethanol stated, all now have contains ethanol. Is this a local thing?

komatsuvarna said:

I haven't either, and run it for ~3 years. What about when it goes to 15 or 20% though?

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Ethanol does 2 things,

1) It dries out the fuel lines and gaskets seals int eh fuels system over time, so you would see increased reapir bills/cycles.
2) It attracts water so when pumped out into your 5 gl can it may be water free and straight/pure E-10~E-20. If there is air in your 5 gl can, and there is humidity in your area, the moisture in your 5 gl can is now being pulled into your mix. open the can, fill the saw, more air is now in the can more water in your mix, and the cyle continues. Water ithe fuel will lower performance (water don't burn very well), and in high altitudes or cold climates it will cause carberator icing (this is why AV fuel MUST be ethanol free by FAA regs)

If you run throught your mix quickly the water issue may never be a problem, unless you cut at high altitudes in winter

dw