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Crane tip-over.

jomoco

jomoco

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SOD is a strain of Phytopthera fungi I believe.

Should be quite do-able at the nearest county ag lab.

Revenge of the innocent slain senior oak tree?

I forward the motion your honor!

jomoco
 
Hoister

Hoister

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I just did a little looking around ..In regards to the 200t crane used by Precision Crane to remove the tree..

The crane invovled was a Grove GMK5175

Grove also made another hydraulic with the same spec's as whats listed at the Precision Crane website it was the GMK 5180..180metric tonne..200 ton in the us

they had 77000lb CW on it with 156 ft of boom ... ironic .. didnt send all the CW with that one either ..just enough to do the job ..
 
tree MDS

tree MDS

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SOD is a strain of Phytopthera fungi I believe.

Should be quite do-able at the nearest county ag lab.

Revenge of the innocent slain senior oak tree?

I forward the motion your honor!

jomoco
These are my thoughts too, start at the beginning: the assessment from atlas that started all this trouble in the first place.

That old tree had some good revenge already...probably got alot more left in the old boy before all the dust settles though.

If I was the HO and that tree tested clean for disease, I'd be looking at a whole separate lawsuit for the loss of such a tree based on potential scare tactics employed by atlas...cha-ching!

Looks
 
jomoco

jomoco

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I just did a little looking around ..In regards to the 200t crane used by Precision Crane to remove the tree..

The crane invovled was a Grove GMK5175

Grove also made another hydraulic with the same spec's as whats listed at the Precision Crane website it was the GMK 5180..180metric tonne..200 ton in the us

they had 77000lb CW on it with 156 ft of boom ... ironic .. didnt send all the CW with that one either ..just enough to do the job ..
They used no jib either, despite the same 12K pick that tipped the 175 being farther away when the 200 recovered it, and then determined the pick's real weight.

jomoco
 
Hoister

Hoister

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The proof is in the pudding ..

If a 175T unit had been sent out instead of a de-rated 175 ..that machine would have handled that chunk at 130ft..Even with the first jib on it would have still handled it at 130fT...as a full 175t unit[]



You still dont get it do you jo..

77,000lbs CW made that 200T a very good 150T unit..versus the very good 90T that the 175 was in there as ..
 
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Hoister

Hoister

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In the mean time ..given the information in the media release ..based on what the "200T" crane was doing ..

I searched my older charts ..
I found a chart for a Liebherr LTM1160/2 with a chart for 77,000lbs counter weight and a 156 ft boom lenght ..
Its best radius for picking up that chunk was 111ft..34 meter

Its listed as a 200T unit as well ..altough ..they are often aslo refered to as a 190T
 
Hoister

Hoister

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I larned decades ego not tu doo no carnfounded heavy base pix with a wobbledee stinkin jib!

jomoco
Were they Grove's ? the old Link Belts ..?

If so ..you would be right ..the older generation of cranes were not the best pickers with the jib on ..even worse if the power pin was deployed ....but they are tough old girls ..i'll give it that ..

The charts were solely based on loaded main boom angle when less than all the telescopic section's were out ..


It started to change back in the late 70's early 80's.. but the mid 90's to today have really seen a hugh advancement is material technology ,material tensile strength and boom design ..




And on some units ..your better on jib than you are on main ..the Krupps were like that ..The Grove GMK 175 ..was basically a enhanced Krupp KMK 5165
Grove bought out Krupp in the early-mid 90's..the GMK 5175 was one of the last built by Grove based on the Krupp ideology
 
VA-Sawyer

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I'm learning, keep posting

Hoister,

This has been very educational for me. Would like to see more load charts posted from various cranes. How do you adjust the charts when you can't get the crane level ?
Rick

PS to Hoister... I think your PM box is full.
 
Hoister

Hoister

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I larned decades ego not tu doo no carnfounded heavy base pix with a wobbledee stinkin jib!

jomoco
Forgive me jo ..im slo

Had a cigarette ..thought about your comment ..

Am I correct in assuming that had this job been your's given the option at the start to use that 175 with the jib as a 90T unit ..or using the 175 with more counter weight as ,say, 135T ..and no jib ..you would agree on renting a 135..
Its only one more slab of stone ..so theres no extra trucking .. the load would easily go down the road on a tridem trailer ..with the mats also on board.. the cost difference would be about 40-65 bucks/hr difference from a 90t unit ..
If you want all 175T capacity ..then its still only a trailer swtich ..and you have your 175 in 1 load ..with mats ,,no jib required ..at 65 bucks/hr +over the 90T rate
Cant say what you pay ..but a 90T unit would rent about $200/hr+/-..

If thats the case ..then ..Im your side ..most diffinatly ..As an OE ..Id be nuts to disagree with you ....

With that all in mind ..then its easy to see where the treeman really crunched a few number's while the sale's rep made a hell of a pitch ..that ended up in a hell of a bang ..


the jib still has its place and often ..there's no avoiding putting it on and having a go at the job ..
 
treevet

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Forgive me jo ..im slo

Had a cigarette ..thought about your comment ..

Am I correct in assuming that had this job been your's given the option at the start to use that 175 with the jib as a 90T unit ..or using the 175 with more counter weight as ,say, 135T ..and no jib ..you would agree on renting a 135..
Its only one more slab of stone ..so theres no extra trucking .. the load would easily go down the road on a tridem trailer ..with the mats also on board.. the cost difference would be about 40-65 bucks/hr difference from a 90t unit ..
If you want all 175T capacity ..then its still only a trailer swtich ..and you have your 175 in 1 load ..with mats ,,no jib required ..at 65 bucks/hr +over the 90T rate
Cant say what you pay ..but a 90T unit would rent about $200/hr+/-..

If thats the case ..then ..Im your side ..most diffinatly ..As an OE ..Id be nuts to disagree with you ....

With that all in mind ..then its easy to see where the treeman really crunched a few number's while the sale's rep made a hell of a pitch ..that ended up in a hell of a bang ..


the jib still has its place and often ..there's no avoiding putting it on and having a go at the job ..
Hindsight it 20 20. Can make even an armchair arborist (like Jomoco) look like a genius.
 
Hoister

Hoister

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Hoister,

This has been very educational for me. Would like to see more load charts posted from various cranes. How do you adjust the charts when you can't get the crane level ?
Rick

PS to Hoister... I think your PM box is full.
It says its empty ..

The truck mount ,boom truck ..if its on outrigger's its supposed to be within less than 1° off level
not level ..your pretty much on your own ..unless you can get an engineer to run new charts for varying degree's of out of level .. but then you'll have to install a list indicator ..same as barge mounted crane's

perfectly level is always the goal ..
 
jomoco

jomoco

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Forgive me jo ..im slo

Had a cigarette ..thought about your comment ..

Am I correct in assuming that had this job been your's given the option at the start to use that 175 with the jib as a 90T unit ..or using the 175 with more counter weight as ,say, 135T ..and no jib ..you would agree on renting a 135..
Its only one more slab of stone ..so theres no extra trucking .. the load would easily go down the road on a tridem trailer ..with the mats also on board.. the cost difference would be about 40-65 bucks/hr difference from a 90t unit ..
If you want all 175T capacity ..then its still only a trailer swtich ..and you have your 175 in 1 load ..with mats ,,no jib required ..at 65 bucks/hr +over the 90T rate
Cant say what you pay ..but a 90T unit would rent about $200/hr+/-..

If thats the case ..then ..Im your side ..most diffinatly ..As an OE ..Id be nuts to disagree with you ....

With that all in mind ..then its easy to see where the treeman really crunched a few number's while the sale's rep made a hell of a pitch ..that ended up in a hell of a bang ..


the jib still has its place and often ..there's no avoiding putting it on and having a go at the job ..
I think a 120 ton hydro with a full set of CW's could have handled that pick on the main boom. Almost all the big hydrocranes I'm experienced with are all german made krupps A/T cranes.

A 175 with full CW's is the perfect choice for long distance picking capacity to remove a big heavy oak, no doubt.

But with either choice you still want a full compliment of CW's to match each crane's rated capacity, with no need of jibs period.

jomoco
 
Hoister

Hoister

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I think a 120 ton hydro with a full set of CW's could have handled that pick on the main boom. Almost all the big hydrocranes I'm experienced with are all german made krupps A/T cranes.

A 175 with full CW's is the perfect choice for long distance picking capacity to remove a big heavy oak, no doubt.

But with either choice you still want a full compliment of CW's to match each crane's rated capacity, with no need of jibs period.

jomoco
But thats what Im getting Jo..
The bigger crane means more money .

Your trying to get the job ,,the sales rep for the crane wants.the work ..

You talked to your client ..you have an idea of how much money is there ..talked to the crane guy ..this is how much money i have ..and presto..your order is filled ..it reaches and gets the job done ..as long as your careful..

From your perspective ..you now have a choice ..use the crane as it is ..OR..go back to your client for more money and get the crane "you" want ..thats a better choice ..
Go back to the crane guy for a better price on a larger crane ..

but Theres no more money ..

Now you have a choice ..use the crane as it is or walk away ..
The crane guy ..wants the sale ..a light should have come on in his skull ..for what it take's to load another stone .."this time" I'm your buddy ..I'll send you a derated 175T unit as a 135T crane at the 90T rate..

Or ---everybody walks away and the home owner gets a newspaper handy guy to flop it in the neighbours yard for 50$..
 
jomoco

jomoco

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It says its empty ..

The truck mount ,boom truck ..if its on outrigger's its supposed to be within less than 1° off level
not level ..your pretty much on your own ..unless you can get an engineer to run new charts for varying degree's of out of level .. but then you'll have to install a list indicator ..same as barge mounted crane's

perfectly level is always the goal ..
You're actin mighty peculiar for a certified crane operator not to warn folks that operating a crane out of level is crazy dangerous, a rotation gear stripping accident that's sure to happen if you're foolish enough to do it.

The rotation gears on hydrocranes are one of, if not their weakest links.

I've yet to meet a CO that'd even consider it for a second.

jomoco
 
Hoister

Hoister

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You're actin mighty peculiar for a certified crane operator not to warn folks that operating a crane out of level is crazy dangerous, a rotation gear stripping accident that's sure to happen if you're foolish enough to do it.

The rotation gears on hydrocranes are one of, if not their weakest links.

I've yet to meet a CO that'd even consider it for a second.

jomoco
That's why an engineer has to run the charts ..that's the only way to get a modification to a certified hoisting device..

If its engineered ..and stamped ..by that approved ..

I did say ..have an engineer in my post ..on that ..just read it again ..
I did say ..out of level ..your on your own ..meaning ..your screwed when it goes wrong .



from a OE's stand point ..theres not a crane manufacturer out there that endorse's the hoisting of personel directly from the ball ..

Those who run the boom trucks have a basket that's engineered by the maunfacturer thats fixed to the boom ..
with that theres a range diagram, and the conditions for use ..

the idea with personel "handling" is no different than an elevator and thats a 10:1 safety factor..other places may vary ..


an elevator has a redundacy for the line breaking ..a crane dosent..


Every place is different ..
 
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