Sustainable logging

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well as I said before you show your ignorance in the way you talk yes I would be glad to talk animal husbandry with you my horses only use 10.00 a horse 2.00 per day for i bale of hay, grain is two pounds per day a 60 pound of oats last one month and that equates into 14.40 a month divided by 30.50 days = 2.11 per day for oats 1 salt block per month at 7.00 per block so 2.00+2.11+.22 = 4.33 shoes run 28.00 every three months 90 days divided into 28.00 =.31 for a total of $ 4.64 per horse I rounded off to the nearest dollar so I dont know what they taught you in that school but as usual you try to implement your ideas of what you think onto some one else and you dont look at the facts! I contacted some FSC foresters I know out on the west coast and they agreed the stands in the pictures were still intact and growing fine so your conclusion that theses stands do not hold up is not altogether true ! There again you have to look at all the factors involved to make a good plot! And i was going to let this go but this idiot will argue with you all day long and not be offended because there again you haven't showed the science that you guys are relying on, just your thoughts and observations! And your rants and 8th grade lets pick on the new guy will not make me leave this site! SO pat your backs thump your chests hoop and holler find every little mistake I make it doesn't bother me nor dose it impress me ! AS I stated I run a very successful company implementing these ideas every day, and I am teaching draft animal logging as I said before its not a hobby its a life ! How many of you commenting here run your own side or do you all work for the man!
 
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Fun fact: it costs the landowner money, out of pocket, to get and maintain FSC certification. I know this because I work on a FSC-certified forest, and our annual audit is coming up again. What FSC certification buys you is A) lack of nosy intervention from the state (mostly) and B) the ability to (sometimes) command a premium for your timber on the auction block. As neither are 100% guaranteed, the FSC certification is more of a feather in a landowner's cap than anything else.

Nobody's trying to pick on anybody. This is a civil discussion. There's only one person worked up here, and that person is holding a minority view. Fact is, as stated many times before, there's no "one-size-fits-all" treatment for forests. It is the thoughtful consideration given a sale that makes it or breaks it. A poorly-executed thin is no better than a poorly-executed clearcut, and letting "nature take its course" via stem exclusion is not a commercially viable route, either. We make decisions, succeed or fail, learn from mistakes and try not to make the same ones again. This is life.

Yeah, I'll get that third round. I think I want something 100-proof.
 
slowp said:
Well, yah, but does that mean it is sound forestry? We're already seeing the results of forestry by how the "majority" (loudest screamers) wants. Gee.

My work here is done. This is not logical. Hey Randy, can I come in the bar too? I'll wear my purple shoes. . :beat-up::drink:

I like my Jack, Yukon. On ice, please.
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slowp you say you are already seeing the results of forestry by the loudest screamers well just to let you know I can go into wilderness areas you speak of and do horse logging if I wanted to we do it here in the mark twain national forest quit often if more people like your self would quit thinking of this as a hobby then maybe your timber thats all locked up could be managed but I bet it would only be done in an environmental way, so maybe you would not want to be involved!
 
horseloger said:
well as I said before you show your ignorance in the way you talk yes I would be glad to talk animal husbandry with you my horses only use 10.00 a horse 2.00 per day for i bale of hay, grain is two pounds per day a 60 pound of oats last one month and that equates into 14.40 a month divided by 30.50 days = 2.11 per day for oats 1 salt block per month at 7.00 per block so 2.00+2.11+.22 = 4.33 shoes run 28.00 every three months 90 days divided into 28.00 =.31 for a total of $ 4.64 per horse I rounded off to the nearest dollar so I dont know what they taught you in that school but as usual you try to implement your ideas of what you think onto some one else and you dont look at the facts! I contacted some FSC foresters I know out on the west coast and they agreed the stands in the pictures were still intact and growing fine so your conclusion that theses stands do not hold up is not altogether true ! There again you have to look at all the factors involved to make a good plot! And i was going to let this go but this idiot will argue with you all day long and not be offended because there again you haven't showed the science that you guys are relying on, just your thoughts and observations! And your rants and 8th grade lets pick on the new guy will not make me leave this site! SO pat your backs thump your chests hoop and holler find every little mistake I make it doesn't bother me nor dose it impress me ! AS I stated I run a very successful company implementing these ideas every day, and I am teaching draft animal logging as I said before its not a hobby its a life ! How many of you commenting here run your own side or do you all work for the man!
Click to expand...

Ignorance is when you haven't been taught something. Stupidity is when you can't be taught something. I'm sorry I disapointed you by not being offended. I didn't realize I was supposed to be offended, you just haven't said anything to offend me, until you called me an idiot, but I'm pretty thick skinned. I don't think anyone is trying to make you leave this site. Tell us about the day to day of horse logging, I'm interested.
I've got my own operation..............I guess that would make me THE MAN!
Like I said earlier, I don't want to play anymore. Tell us about horse logging.

Andy
 
madhatte said:
Fun fact: it costs the landowner money, out of pocket, to get and maintain FSC certification. I know this because I work on a FSC-certified forest, and our annual audit is coming up again. What FSC certification buys you is A) lack of nosy intervention from the state (mostly) and B) the ability to (sometimes) command a premium for your timber on the auction block. As neither are 100% guaranteed, the FSC certification is more of a feather in a landowner's cap than anything else.

Nobody's trying to pick on anybody. This is a civil discussion. There's only one person worked up here, and that person is holding a minority view. Fact is, as stated many times before, there's no "one-size-fits-all" treatment for forests. It is the thoughtful consideration given a sale that makes it or breaks it. A poorly-executed thin is no better than a poorly-executed clearcut, and letting "nature take its course" via stem exclusion is not a commercially viable route, either. We make decisions, succeed or fail, learn from mistakes and try not to make the same ones again. This is life.

Yeah, I'll get that third round. I think I want something 100-proof.
Click to expand...
your absolutely right about the FSC program but there again is not the FSC principles based on proven science ? and I have never maintained that there is only one way to do things just that clear cuts are what causes our industry the bad rep it gets as I said people would much rather see a job like the FSC picture than a clear cut so if we want to get the environmental people out of our hair then maybe we should try to do something about it! As far as being in the minority view thats fine by me but personal attacks and name calling in my world is something to get one worked up!
 
redprospector said:


Ignorance is when you haven't been taught something. Stupidity is when you can't be taught something. I'm sorry I disapointed you by not being offended. I didn't realize I was supposed to be offended, you just haven't said anything to offend me, until you called me an idiot, but I'm pretty thick skinned. I don't think anyone is trying to make you leave this site. Tell us about the day to day of horse logging, I'm interested.
I've got my own operation..............I guess that would make me THE MAN!
Like I said earlier, I don't want to play anymore. Tell us about horse logging.

Andy
Click to expand...

I never called you an idiot I said it was ignorance and you stated your definition of ignorance is when you haven't been taught something, When were you taught about my expenses for my horse when were you taught about my math skills And Im glad you run your own show I fixed some of my Ignorance about what I know about you now didnt I am not stupid as you say I have learned a lot in my life and that is what I am trying to do is share some of that knowledge that I have but some on here keep insisting there way is the only way and not showing me the facts behind it
 
Oh dear!

One of the most wasteful, destructive periods of historic logging, was done with animal power. Only the steam era was worse.
Tell us the advantages that horse power has and what logging it does best.
Some of us have more interest in hearing about logging, than carrying on.
We do listen, we are active, we are from everywhere and now we have a horselogger.
Pictures are always good.

Gary is up for the 4th or are we at six?
 
horseloger said:
I never called you an idiot I said it was ignorance and you stated your definition of ignorance is when you haven't been taught something, When were you taught about my expenses for my horse when were you taught about my math skills And Im glad you run your own show I fixed some of my Ignorance about what I know about you now didnt I am not stupid as you say I have learned a lot in my life and that is what I am trying to do is share some of that knowledge that I have but some on here keep insisting there way is the only way and not showing me the facts behind it
Click to expand...

That's a load off my mind. I'm certainly glad it wasn't me that you called an idiot. I'm sure you can see how I could make that assumption, since that post started out replying to me, and I didn't notice any one elses handle mentioned to indicate otherwise.
As far as being taught about you. You've been feeding us bits of information for several posts. As far as fixing your ignorance about me, you don't have to work so hard at it. Just ask, I'll tell you just about anything I want you to know.
Now tell us about horse logging.............please.

Andy
 
horseloger said:
slowp you say you are already seeing the results of forestry by the loudest screamers well just to let you know I can go into wilderness areas you speak of and do horse logging if I wanted to we do it here in the mark twain national forest quit often if more people like your self would quit thinking of this as a hobby then maybe your timber thats all locked up could be managed but I bet it would only be done in an environmental way, so maybe you would not want to be involved!
Click to expand...

OH MY GAWD!

Nobody, not nobody talks about logging wilderness. You'd have to use miserywhips, you'd have to take it clean out to a road outside of the wilderness boundary, you'd have every treehugger and hiker-- maybe even me, chained up to the scraggly trees up there to stop you.

You could not "log" a wilderness area, legally. Even if you "wanted" to. Not only would you be paying out some money, the people who let you do so would probably get an unpaid vacation.

Please explain when and how you logged in a wilderness area? Does the Mark Twain forest have a wilderness area? Or are you now talking about trail maintenance, using misery whips?

Okay boys, we're on the fourth or fifth round and I am a happy drunk. I'll now buy and go home with an empty wallet. Tarzantrees, I'll share my Yukon.
 
Yes we do maintenance and yes we use misery whips and we have been contacted by the forestry service to work on beetle kill in Colorado wilderness area with chainsaws and delivery too designated areas to be choppered out ! So if anybody will be let in it to wilderness areas it will be the horse loggers who do low in-pack logging !
 
These are some pics of some of the folks I know and deal with will have some more later
1 Is a skid trail that we work on for 6 months
2is a pic of John Plowden demonstrating the use of a bob sled at the MOFGA demonstrations
3 Is Chad Vogel using his logging arch to move some big poplar
 
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