Sustainable logging

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logging-guide

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There is this misconception among the public about loggers that I would like to put to rest. They seem to think that loggers are unconcerned about the forests they work in. They think loggers only cut, slash and destroy. As a logger I take issue with this way of thinking. I was taught from the first day on my first logging job to be responsible in the way I harvest timber. I was taught to make as little of an impact as possible. It only makes good sense, I mean after all we want to come back and harvest that piece of timber again.

My question is this. What sustainable logging methods do you use to minimize the impact on the forest?
 
I gotta admit, I enjoyed the cutting, slashing and destroying.

You will get some reasonable people to answer your questions. It's above my pay grade. We have a few active foresters and loggers who are well versed on the subject.
 
From a fallers stand point, one of the best things i try to do is fall my trees so that the skidder doesnt have to try spinning them around the leave trees. I have even cut some logs to length in the woods to reduce the chance of marking trees up if the logs are laying in behind leave trees. Another thing is try to not knock tops out of the leave trees
 
Where I work, at least for 6.5 more weeks, the timber is growing faster than it is harvested. Would that be above or below sustainable?

The agency has had a genetically superior tree program. In the 70's trees were chosen for their fast growth, good form and location--easily accessible. Cones were picked, and then the seeds planted in nurseries. Then scions (I'm talking about what I do not know much about) were grafted onto whatever you graft to and we now have seed orchards, where seeds can be gathered for starting seedlings if needed.

We don't have the big clearcuts anymore. I see some plans for some small 2-5 acre "clearings" in the next project.

When we talk terminology, sustainable is second to "restoration".
 
I don't care for the term "Sustainable". It implies a status quo which never needs to be changed. I prefer "Ongoing", as it implies no end.

That said, there has been a sea change in logging philosophy in the last 25 years, some of it due to government intervention, some due to improvements in science and technology, and some due to popular opinion. On the whole, the changes have been largely for the better. However, we're only human, and we have to make mistakes to learn from them. I suspect that forestry practice will continue to evolve as our knowledge and needs evolve.
 
I think every profession and industry has a lot of past to live down. As an early settler on the North branch of the Sesquanaha, I doubt my great, great grandfather practiced sustainable forestry. Too bad all the money he made was squandered long before my generation.
 
Tree co your absolutely right on the head there, all those years of leave that old knotty tree as a seed tree has created a gene pool that is terrible! And slowp it is true that the trees are growing faster than there harvested but there again faster dose not equate with higher quality faster growth means weaker cell structure larger grow rings and weaker lumber! And palogger thats the way to do it the less damage to the residual stand the less chance you have of insects or disease getting in and weakening the timber!
We too use directional falling when we drop trees but we always buck to length our logs I was taught along time ago that the longer the log the more damage can o cure, so we use more chokers and bunch our logs to remove them!And when we get trees that we cant get by without hitting them then we place old tires around the trees to help take the impact! O and logging guide did you get my email?
 
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I don't care for the term "Sustainable". It implies a status quo which never needs to be changed. I prefer "Ongoing", as it implies no end.

That said, there has been a sea change in logging philosophy in the last 25 years, some of it due to government intervention, some due to improvements in science and technology, and some due to popular opinion. On the whole, the changes have been largely for the better. However, we're only human, and we have to make mistakes to learn from them. I suspect that forestry practice will continue to evolve as our knowledge and needs evolve.

Disagree completely! Things started going down hill 30 years ago. Forests al least in this state are being mismanaged at an accelerating rate. Blame it mostly on government regulations. The rest is catering to the PC crowd that thinks clearcut is a dirty word.
 
clear cutting and replanting dose nothing but destroy the existing eco system! It leaches nutrients out of the soil even when using water bars and other methods of erosion control's they only modify's the loss of soil it also allows invasive species to engulf the area and destroys wild life habitat that is need! even slowp admits that it is more about restoration, if the practices were working why are you guys having to restore what was done in the past? And you can go on all day debating management practice's what it really boils down too is markets and prices ! All that wood that is going to waste would be utilizes if markets were available at a price that would afford a profit. Lands would be available to log if the general pubic were able to see positive in packs on the land and not areas looking like a tornado hit it ! Here is a pic of a job that we have done along a main highway we have revived many comments and job inquiry's after people have seen the positive in pack created with this kind of management
 
We have more houses than we can sell, We overharvest our forest, Our unemployment is sky high. How about we use horselogging and cut timber with crosscut saws. With putting enough people to work we could regulate how much timber we cut and if you have a place to live you don't need to build another one. So that should help lower the excess houseing, won"t need to cut as much timber, Put many people to work,cuting and skidding with horses. Just think of all the support jobs. No work= no pay, no welfare !!! (I'm NOT running for any political office, Probably couldn't get elected for dogcatcher with ideas like this anyway)
 
Things started going down hill 30 years ago. Forests al least in this state are being mismanaged at an accelerating rate. Blame it mostly on government regulations. The rest is catering to the PC crowd that thinks clearcut is a dirty word.

That's a sentiment I've heard more than once, and is not without merit. As I've noted elsewhere, Douglas-Fir grows best in full sunlight -- that is, the sort of conditions that follow a clearcut. Our young forests are among the most vigorous in the world.

However, on the steep slopes and clay soils common through much of our region, the roots of both mature trees and understory shrubs and forbs are critical in holding soils stable during our wet winters. Landslides occur when water percolates through permeable soil layers to the interface with impermeable parent material, and the whole mass floats off down the hill. Limiting disturbance limits this slope instability.

An "Ongoing" forestry program is one which balances the needs of the developing trees with the needs of the soils they require to grow in. There will be no forest in the future if the hillside is in the river drainage.
 
clear cutting and replanting dose nothing but destroy the existing eco system! It leaches nutrients out of the soil even when using water bars and other methods of erosion control's they only modify's the loss of soil it also allows invasive species to engulf the area and destroys wild life habitat that is need! even slowp admits that it is more about restoration, if the practices were working why are you guys having to restore what was done in the past? And you can go on all day debating management practice's what it really boils down too is markets and prices ! All that wood that is going to waste would be utilizes if markets were available at a price that would afford a profit. Lands would be available to log if the general pubic were able to see positive in packs on the land and not areas looking like a tornado hit it ! Here is a pic of a job that we have done along a main highway we have revived many comments and job inquiry's after people have seen the positive in pack created with this kind of management

Sorry man, clear-cuts are a PROVEN method. However they aren't the right choice in every forest type. There are many area's where we should never use this practice.

The stuff you said about the soils having nutrients leached out is just untrue. Removing all of the stems from a site doesn't change the soil chemical composition. It will change soil moisture content, and the soil can be compacted to different degrees depending on the method of harvest.
 
If you have erosion you have leaching ask any soil scientist And madhatte is absolutely right about the shrubs and tree roots holding the soil and the deeper and larger the root system the more it holds! A lot of the land slides that occurred out there are attributed to the loss of the overhead canopy buy logging or fire!
Hermit Although you were joking there I think and if not I will apologizes ahead of time! But the context is actually not a bad idea and is needed! Rural areas that have good growing stocks could benefit from small scale logging and sawmill operations and employ many more people If the larger corporations would allow it but they do everything in there power to stop it fearing that we will get into there pockets! You know that the guy that invented the combustion engine used wood alcohol to run his engine, which is made from trees! Now wouldnt that be a market too supply
 
Thanks for the link that is exactly what Im talking about from what I see they have a diverse Eco system that was restored by uneven aged management!And utilizing all merchantable material into finished product allows a higher profit on a lower amount of timber extracted And using small low impacted machinery to harvest the wood!
Although not all wood land owners would be able or willing to harvest this way, [meaning that they would not have the capital to buy the machinery] Small community groups would be able to come in and harvest leading to more employment for cutters skidder operators horse, or machinery sawyers dry kiln opperater's and cabinet makers and truck drivers
 
Logging Guide

I have to say, I like what I am hearing. Thank you all for your great answers! This thread proves that loggers in general are concerned about the health of the forest they work in. Your answers show that loggers are ahead of everyone else like we always have been. Loggers are progressive and not just sustainable in the way they manage forests.

Slowp, I think what you are doing is above sustainable. Maybe we need to coin a new term such as 'Progressive Logging' for this type of operation.

Madhatte, I like your thinking on this. I would add as well that the free market has had a lot to do with the advances in the last quarter century. The need for better, cheaper, more easily harvest-able timber has given rise to operations like Slowp is describing.

Horseloger and TreeCo, You are absolutely right. Maybe advances in science can solve the poor gene pool problem. In the mean time we can follow your lead and harvest timber selectively, and with minimal damage, leaving high quality younger trees behind to re-seed the forest.

You all have inspired me to write an article Sustainable Forestry or Progressive Forestry

Check it out an let me know what you think.

Have a great day!
 
clear cutting and replanting dose nothing but destroy the existing eco system! It leaches nutrients out of the soil even when using water bars and other methods of erosion control's they only modify's the loss of soil it also allows invasive species to engulf the area and destroys wild life habitat that is need! even slowp admits that it is more about restoration, if the practices were working why are you guys having to restore what was done in the past? And you can go on all day debating management practice's what it really boils down too is markets and prices ! All that wood that is going to waste would be utilizes if markets were available at a price that would afford a profit. Lands would be available to log if the general pubic were able to see positive in packs on the land and not areas looking like a tornado hit it ! Here is a pic of a job that we have done along a main highway we have revived many comments and job inquiry's after people have seen the positive in pack created with this kind of management

I won't speak for your area but i know this area and clearcuts are the best way to go. Nothing unnatural about it either. It mimics a burn at least they way it used to be done.
When Slowp talks about "restoration" I can say with a lot of confidence she means restoration to an old growth forest with the goal to never log it again. Those second groth forests she pictures hardly need restoration from bad logging practices.
Those tornado hit looking clearcuts might not look good to the general public but don't fool yourself, it is plowed ground waiting for the next planting and not just commercial trees . Nature plants a lot of benficial flora by herself.

This erosion you talk about just overblown around here. Didn't seem like much of it. Worst slides seem to be in the old growth. It rains a lot here so maybe we have the ability to flush any silt to the ocean but mostly not a factor. Th trees gorw just fine erosion or not. Maybe you have to see it but they come up like a carpetand you can't stop them.

When I see the new forestry, I see millions of feet of good timber left to rot in blown down buffer strips, root balls leaching their dirt into salmon streams and a lack of forage for wildlife because the thinning doesn't promote the growth they prefer.
The area where I live went through the supposedly worst logging practices in the 20s and 30s. Splash dams, ground logging across and through streams and yet the salmon were doing great, the forest was growing thick and the game was plentiful. Now however all of that has changed and I don't think you can blame how things have changed all on forestry but you can't say the old ways were to blame either. That just doesn't fly if you saw what it looked like.

The main problems I see now are the wasted leave trees, thinning for no good reason, private lands being logged to fast and government lands not being logged enough or not at all.

I tell you I just get so sick of hearing how bad logging is and was. It is not true.
 
well then if its so good then how do you explain the growth in slowps and in the growth in madhate link the most of the trees in madhatte have larger growth and looks of better quality, because of the uneven age management!And as I stated the nursery trees that are replanted are genetically engineered for fast growth and fast growth produces weak lumber! You can talk to most any contractor and he will tell you that the wood that was produced out of the old growth wood was far superior than the wood today! It is a proven fact that clear cutting hurts the Eco System and that land slides are a direct link to fire damage and logging activity! So you can tote the company line or actually dig into the real science!
If we dont change how we look to the general public we will have more and more regulations heaped on us by the government! Shows like Axe Men that show's that we are a bunch of thug's that stand around cussing and trying to kill each other for dramatic effect and showing trees being smashed and dragged through the landscape only enhance the feeling that we are destroying more than we are helping the environment ! And there again if you say the word second growth that means that it was cut once and you are restoring it back to its originally condition so how can you restore something if it wasn't damaged in the first place!
I have been out there worked there and left in discussed because of what I have seen this was back in the eighty's when supposedly they had started to do things more sensibly but it was still pretty bad !
 
When I see the new forestry, I see millions of feet of good timber left to rot in blown down buffer strips, root balls leaching their dirt into salmon streams and a lack of forage for wildlife because the thinning doesn't promote the growth they prefer.
The area where I live went through the supposedly worst logging practices in the 20s and 30s.

Ah, there's another thing that's commonly overlooked. Diseases such as Laminated Root Rot weaken the trees from the roots, and the likes of Brown Top Rot makes trees prone to breakage in the wind. Note that both of these diseases are endemic to forests of a specific age class, that is, 50-100 years old. That's the exact age of the majority of timberlands harvested in the Pacific Northwest today.

A simultaneous strength and weakness of clear-cutting as a silvicultural treatment in 2nd-growth stands is that it captures the vigor of the young forest before the diseases have a chance to do major damage. Contrarily, it captures the entire genetic diversity of the stand before Natural Selection has a chance to produce disease-resistant individuals through trial and error. A longer rotation (say, 70 years) would only show increased losses to disease and to stem exclusion.

A well-planned thin program, however, can capture both mortality and survival, and repeated entries fine-tune the desired stand structure so that a given stand can be visited again and again. The most important thing to get away from is the idea that there's some kind of hurry -- that's Wall Street thought, and those guys don't work in the woods with us. Trees have their own pace about things.

Finally, I want to address the issue of "Clock-Resetting" events like fire or volcanism and their role in forests. Yes, these things do happen. In some places they happen relatively often, and the ecology adapts to accomodate it. In other places, such as the outer Pacific coast of the Northwest, they happen very infrequently, and the ecologies are poorly adapted to such events.

The time between major disturbance events is called a "Return Interval". Eastside Ponderosa stands have a fire return interval on the order of 5-10 years. Coastal Spruce and Hemlock stands? More like 1000. It takes centuries for the organic material in the top and middle layers of soil to grow thick and rich enough to support the kind of plant and animal diversity we take for granted. For every major disturbance event, it takes time to recover.

The most extreme examle locally is, of course, Mt St. Helens. Go walk around the Hummocks between Cold Creek and Johnson Ridge and have a look at the soil. It's thin, sterile, and fragile. That's because it's only been 30 years since it was nothing but a fine glass dust. Now walk around in the big timber near Staircase. Your soil will be under a couple of feet of leaf litter, branch debris, moss, lichen, and will be soft, moist, aerated, full of worms and bugs and fungus.

That's what disturbance destroys. It's not just the soil itself -- it's everything that makes the soil. Those things, in turn, are what makes a forest, not just trees. I almost don't care about trees at all, except as they affect the larger system that is the Forest. That's why I'm so adamant about limiting disturbance. I don't want to save any special tree or something -- I just want to make sure that there are forests for later so fifty generations from now there'll still be raw materials to make buttwipe out of.
 
I usually don't like folks trying to read my mind for me, but Humptulips hit it right on. I have asked what we are restoring the forest to...what condition. Old growth was what was in the documents, the people wouldn't answer. So, since old growth is off limits, the federal woods won't have logging for long. We grow trees here. They grow fast.

As to the quality? All trees have growth rings far apart at the start here. The second growth has less defect and saves out better when felled. Did you notice all the rot and breakage in the old growth when you were out here, horselogger? We'd cruise it to where we figured the top would explode when the tree hit the ground. We got pretty good at that after seeing what happened.

Did you notice all the conks on the trees? There were quite a few, especially when we got into the hemlock/silver fir stands at the higher elevations. So much for quality there.

Clearcuts being bad? Clearcuts have been made for eons out here. Think of what the vocanic eruptions have done. The tribes burned the forest so they'd have good hunting and berry gathering. The big game doesn't have much to eat in a dark, old growth forest.

Our huckleberry areas are getting smaller. The old clearcuts are getting a closed canopy and that chokes out the huckleberries. I am a huckleberry fanatic and want more clearcuts again. Huckleberries have also been "discovered" by the urban restaurants and the demand has increased. So we folks who pick for ourselves are competing with commercial pickers while the available berries are decreasing.

Soils? We have slides where there was no logging and slides where there was. Our local soils are volcanic. Lots of pumice. Dig down and you'll find a layer of pumice, then a layer of organics, a layer of pumice, a layer of organics...Water perks through it pretty fast so it dries out fast. Did I mention how well trees grow?

One small mill goes through 2mmbf each month. I do not think you could supply that using horses, but I don't know much about horses. I do know that we have a lot of very steep ground that needs a yarder or helicopter to get the logs off.

As for making jobs? Back when logging was going hard and heavy here, a guy only needed to show up early and stand by the Mt. Adams Cafe with a lunchbox and a pair of calk boots, and he'd get picked up by a crew and put to work. Then there were the kids hired to dig fireline, the FS people who did the burning, the contract mop up crews, the brush pilers, the tree planters, the road builders, and the thinners. The TWO ranger districts employed two hundred people in the summer, most of whom worked in timber prep jobs. Now we have one district that has maybe about 60 employees in the summer, most of whom seem to work at computers. We hire maybe one or two kids to work in timber prep.

It was hard to find an excuse to be unemployed here. Now???

Like Humptulips said, we have blowdown in some pretty thick concentrations and it is rotting away. The woods are pretty much shut down. Sad...But don't blame clearcuts. Clearcuts are sustainable.
 

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