Considerations as I head to the dealer and online

[sawinredneck]

Welcome to AS!
First and foremost find a dealer you like and doesn't treat you like crap! Doesn't matter what brand he sells as long as you feel comfortable with him and his people. I've found most people on here are more knowledgeable about saws than the dealers are, dealers don't like having smart customers most times. They want to tell you what you need not knowing the full scope of the situation.
Now you have a dealer you like and he gets a kick out of you, everybody is happy.
Pick up and handle the saws he sells, how does this one and that one feel to you? Is it too heavy, balance nice with the bar you think you need, feel good in your hands? This is important because you will spend a lot of time holding it from the sounds of things, and some saws just don't feel right to some people, but someone else might be just the opposite.
I will also be one to encourage going one size larger than you think you need if you are getting just one saw. There is always going to be at least one tree you wish you had a bigger saw for. I won't say a 50cc can't do it as I am learning more and more how to use my 50cc saws efficiently since breaking my back.
Brand doesn't mean squat as long as you are looking at pro saws. I suggest pro for you because you want the longevity and repairable qualities stated in your first post.
So to recap, find a dealer, handle the saws, buy a pro saw and run the piss out of it!

 

[brain]

Not to be a smart ass, but which 70cc saw do you figure would work best for ya?

It was pretty easy to find the 50cc recommendations on the site, and I gathered it was a popular size. However, I am still compiling the larger saw recommendations (there were more spread out on the site).

Reason I'm asking is, from what you describe you'll be looking for more saw pretty soon after the 50cc class saw, and you WILL be needing both.

As I was writing the post, I started thinking the same thing. I might rent the larger saw, though, instead of buying and selling.

Are you going to burn wood for heat?
If not, I gurantee there are woodticks in the area that would be glad to help you clear out the tangles for the free wood.

No, we are not. (Don't hate me, the current house has no fireplace, and there are so many other things to worry about right now, I'd rather the wood go to a better use than sitting stored at the house until we get a new home built (with a fireplace).

I thought about asking for help. My main problem is that we're new here, and I have not networked with many in the area. I also thought about commercial offerings, but I see a couple issues:

• We're trying to conserve cash for the new house.
• We've moved from the city (SO and I are farm kids, but my children have only known city life). There is an educational component to this work effort concerning my children (hauling logs and branches, not sawing
• Our time is flexible. And, though some of the trees are not technically in danger, I may want them gone to pave the way for better access or home siting. But, so many things are in flux right now, I'm afraid I'll get the company out here, and then find a new batch of trees that need clearing.
• Practice makes perfect, and I hate always being apprehensive working saws on cleanup because I don't use them that often.

 

[brain]

Welcome Jim

A used saw is certainly a viable option. That said I would call a few dealers and see what they have for used. Private sales are OK but you need to know what you're looking for and at to avoid buying someone's "problem child".

I am sure I will struggle with this. I've spent a great amount of time buying on eBay and Craigslist because I'm rather handy. But, I agree, I don't know enough about 2 cycle and chainsaw particulars to ferret out the deals from the messes on private sales. I'll check for used dealer sales, though. Thanks for the idea.

As to dealers, find one that sells to and or supplies loggers and tree services as a chunk of their business. This is the best indicator they know saws and don't just carry them to supplement their lawn mower and weed wacker core business.

On advice of the forum, I skipped the ACE Hardware Stihl dealers for similar reasons. Maybe I'll call the Conservation Office and get a recommendation from them.

 

[brain]

I'm thinkin in the lines of 60ccs, Stihl 362, Husky 359, Dolmar 6400. If only one saw I'd want atleast 60cc. Like the others have said, find the best dealer they all are quality saws.

A nice FAQ would be a "cc" matrix showing what types of operations and tree sizes would be best with a particular size of saw. I'm struggling with 60 versus 70. If 50 is bottom of the pro line, is 60 enough additional power to make a material difference? I 'll go searching for something like that in the meantime.

Jim

 

[brain]

Skip the big box stores and find a good local saw shop, for pro saws.

Husky, Sthl, Dolmar, you can't really go wrong.

The local Stihl person seemed helpful on the phone. I'm trying to head there tonight to hold some of the units. I've been accused of being an over-educated buyer at times, so we'll see how he handles that. (Strange how so few people do much research on stuff anymore)

Jim

 

[brain]

Stihl MS 362 with 20" bar & 3 or 4 RSC chains. Make sure you have all the ppe and grab a bar scabbard to protect the b&c. Keep a good sharp chain on at all times and take your time when using the saw.

Though I might make enemies here, my engineering side highly favors the PowerSharp system from Oregon. Since they don't yet have a .325" option, I had considered limiting my choices to 3/8" chain-based units, but quickly saw the folly of that. That said, I will probably buy limited number of chains in anticipation of Oregon coming out with a .325" PowerSharp.

Jim

 

[brain]

Jim, do you have any idea of how often/what percentage you'll be cutting 24" trees compared to 12" trees? You might find the initial clean-up a lot easier and faster with a larger saw.

I went out this morning and counted. I would say the ratio is 1 to 4 or so 24" to smaller stuff. So, that's probably my overestimation of the larger trees. Still, if the 70cc units are not uncomfortably heavy, I agree that a larger saw can do smaller stuff, but not the other way around.

Of course starting with a smaller saw might be best, depending on how you're going to approach the clean-up.

My only concern is falling into the "overbuying" trap. I don't want to curse my saw because it's too large and unwieldy all the time because I overbought.

 

[mayhem100]

If you're not going to burn it for heat, what are you intending to do with the wood?

One thought I have is to contact a local logging or sawmill outfits and find out if they're interested in looking at your property. The coupld places I've spokent o in the past were only interested in logging by the log truck load, but you may have enough of the larger straighter desirable wood for them to be interested. You have nothing to lose to talk to them, you mgiht luck out and have alot of what they want and maybe make some money on the deal, no need for a new saw at all.

You could also put an ad in craigslist and let select people come and clear out some of the lot for wood. Work out a liability waiver to prtect yourself if someone drops a tree on his truck. Not suggesting you're going to get the lot cleared and leveled for free like so many CL ads these days, but maybe some guys in your area could use the wood anyway and if you don't have a need for the wood, letting them take the firewood out and stack the brush for periodic burning and you mgiht accomplish your goals too.

 

[brain]

Considerations
You could rent a saw and give what you want to do a try. Rentals are available at Home Despot or possibly a local rental shop. Land clearing is tough work especially without the aid of hydraulics and manpower. You might find that your money is better spent hiring out a company to get your land under control than investing in a high power pro saw. I would, at minimum, talk to a forester to decide on what needs to go and what should be saved.

I may consider the rental for one of the options, but I am leery of rentals without a good baseline. I'd hate to start hating Stihl because the rental Stihl has been abused. It's not the saw's fault. If I have a nice owned saw, at least I know what a good saw should do, and I can address the issues correctly (don't rent again with that vendor, possibly).

As for commercial work, it is tempting, but I really need to "man up" and become self sufficient. As the next poster noted, there is no "end" to cleanup with a shelter belt like this.

However, I am hedging my bets. If I get a saw, work on it for a month or two and am not making appreciable progress, I'm adult enough to call in the pros and get it done. At least I will have gotten lots of practice, I'll have some common ground with the crew and can talk knowledgeably, and I still need a saw long term, anyway, so the purchase is not wasted.

Jim

 

[brain]

You don't need 5 million saws. Are you in decent shape? I have a friend who is cleaning up 120 acres--when I feel like needing a workout, I head there. I have 5 acres of brush and bastard growth to work on.

I'm in reasonable shape, but I will admit city life has softened me up a bunch. Part of my workout regimen in this homestead...

For me, that latter part is the most important consideration because I'm not mechanically inclined, and there is nothing that ticks me off like a saw that will not start and run well.

I am mechanically inclined, but I vehemently agree with your point. As noted, nothing was so frustrating as trying to get my Father's saws to just run. All of the puffery of "Jim, I got that saw for $50.00 at a yard sale. It was a bargain" was lost on me as I tried in vain to start the thing. A bargain is a well running unit that costs significantly less than it's value. A poorly operating unit at a reduced price is just a valid purchase, if that.

 

[nmurph]

OK, here are some thoughts on the larger saw:

-based on the tree size you mentioned I think a 70-80cc saw will meet your needs

-a 50cc/70cc two-some is a nice combo

-when you are finished with the initial clearing, the 50cc would probably meet your needs for maintenance issues.

-if you buy used you have reduced the depreciation hit. A used pro saws tend to hold their values pretty well.

Here are some options and a thought or two about each-

Husky 372 - strong, light, smooth, and parts are plentiful. They are pretty easy to find used and easy to sell if you desire.

Stihl 441 - similar power to the above, but heavier and smoother.

Dolmar 7900 - in between the first to and the last in weight, but significantly stronger than any of these. Very smooth to operate.

Husky 385 - a 2-3 pounds heavier than the ones mentioned above. A very smooth saw. Power-wise, very similar to the 7900.

Husky 266/268 - similar but less powerful than the 372

Husky 371 - Pretty much the same saw as the 372.


Any of these saws would serve your needs well. I think you just need to start looking. Find one you are interested in and post up.

 

[Warped5]

IF you decide to go the 50/70cc route .... a Husky 346 or 350 is a great choice in the 50cc class. Good power and really light, can carry it all day!

 

[jus2fat]

With the size wood you are going to be doing...
a Stihl 361/362 should be just about perfect for you.
It's light weight...very powerful...and excellent reputation.
You can fell with it...buck with it...and limb with it...
All you need is a 20" bar to do all of the above.
And you won't be "worn out" at the end of day because of nice weight.

If you can find a good used Stihl 036 or 044....sweet!!
I found a lightly used 036 homeowner "creampuff" for $300!!!

J2F

 

[dingeryote]

It was pretty easy to find the 50cc recommendations on the site, and I gathered it was a popular size. However, I am still compiling the larger saw recommendations (there were more spread out on the site).

As I was writing the post, I started thinking the same thing. I might rent the larger saw, though, instead of buying and selling.

No, we are not. (Don't hate me, the current house has no fireplace, and there are so many other things to worry about right now, I'd rather the wood go to a better use than sitting stored at the house until we get a new home built (with a fireplace).

I thought about asking for help. My main problem is that we're new here, and I have not networked with many in the area. I also thought about commercial offerings, but I see a couple issues:

• We're trying to conserve cash for the new house.
• We've moved from the city (SO and I are farm kids, but my children have only known city life). There is an educational component to this work effort concerning my children (hauling logs and branches, not sawing
• Our time is flexible. And, though some of the trees are not technically in danger, I may want them gone to pave the way for better access or home siting. But, so many things are in flux right now, I'm afraid I'll get the company out here, and then find a new batch of trees that need clearing.
• Practice makes perfect, and I hate always being apprehensive working saws on cleanup because I don't use them that often.

Brain, I think I understand where you're goin with this.

You need to get some clearing done for the home site initially, and the rest will be "clean up as ya go". If you're building, I know well your conundrum, just went through that here several years back.

The budget and time aspects are very related as well.
Down time because a saw ain't running, and you have a two day window every 5-8 days to get things done, in order to get other things done is Maddening.
Buy new from a good dealer.

For the initial clearing the 70cc saws will save ya time and dinking around. Weight wise, the MS440 and 372xp are just a couple pounds more than the 346 and 261 but will blast through the 12-30" stems, where the 50cc saws will nibble.

You're not burning for heat, so you have no reason to salvage everything 3" diameter and bigger. You just need to cut the stuff into a manageable size and weight for moving it out of the way or to a burn pile. This is important really, as your need for a 50cc limber is less than if you were firewooding.

Drop 'em, snip the limbs into draggable length with 2-3 cuts.
Buck up the stems. Drag limbs and smaller stuff to a "Whoof" pile.
Sounds more like ya need a single 60-70cc saw initially.

The kids can get plenty of "Next to dirt" education rolling rounds and dragging limbs LOL!!! Who needs a tractor.

The MS440 or a 362, and the Dolly 7900 would work just fine for ya.
The Husky 372XP is the other option in the same general price range.

70cc saws might seem to be a bit "Much" for this, as a good 60cc saw will do as well, untill you consider weight. The speed gain for almost no real weight penalty is worth it.

Later on, you'll appreciate a 260 or 346.

Just make sure to have several loops of chain and bone up on your hand filing skills in the meantime. Dull chain will make the best saw worthless, and make you work 3 times as hard.

Best of luck on the new Homestead!!!
It's a war of sorts. The initial planning and preperation is 90% of doing things right and bieng happy in the long run.
Good luck to ya!!!

Stay safe!
Dingeryote

 

[CJ1]

I guess the only thing I have to add is I would stay in the 70cc range for your big saw. The 80+CC saws can be a handfull for someone that is not experienced with a saw. The 70cc range is easy to find and sell also. CJ

 

[jerrycmorrow]

i can't believe noone else has stated what i'm agonna say:

1. do you have an efco dealer around there that's worth beans? if so, efco builds pro-quality saws and has a 5-year homeowners warranty to boot. i've been running efco saws (Olympics) for 30 years. Heavy as rocks but still doing it. The newer efcos are significantly lighter. check out the efco threads.

2. some dealers (not necessarily efco) will let you test cut with a saw; some won't. if you find one that will he may have some rounds out back or you may need to bring your own. if they won't, try to rent one for a day or two from a HD or some other rental outfit.

3. check out some of the gtg's in your area. that is an excellent opportunity to heft and use a variety of saws. also is a good place to development network of like-minded people who can fill your information voids.

lotta good info here. we used to have a saying back in military days during the nightly poker games. study long, study wrong. compile the info (as you are doing) but after the info is compiled trust your gut and go with it. also, ain't nothin wrong with having more than one saw. after all, you don't want the kids fighting over "dad's saw" when they grow up and you expire. gotta be considerate of them in that way, you know?

good cuttin.

 

[zogger]

10 cc

A nice FAQ would be a "cc" matrix showing what types of operations and tree sizes would be best with a particular size of saw. I'm struggling with 60 versus 70. If 50 is bottom of the pro line, is 60 enough additional power to make a material difference? I 'll go searching for something like that in the meantime.

Jim

Seems like a small number, but with saws an additional 10 CCs is a lot.

One saw plan, 60 cc, two saw plan, 50 (or close to it) and 70 something. Skip three saw plan, go right to four, a smallish 30 cc something, maybe a top handle, then something larger than the 70 a monster muscle saw, only dragged out for special occasions. ( I don't have one myself yet, but someday...)(finally get to pay off my two 60 cc saws this week, then on to some more)

I would never be stuck with just one saw again, emergencies and whatnot, saws bust, etc. We've been hit *twice* now with tornadoes in less than a year. Got me freaked out. I am on an "every size possible, and multiples" saw acquiring binge. You can easily have "not enough" saw or saws, but it is hard to have "too much" saw or saws when you REALLY NEED THEM. I am not talking the shelf queen collectors oddball saws, I mean serious work saws and emergency saws.

The classifieds here have some good deals, in various sizes. check there. For what you would pay for one new saw you can get two decent used saws.

That big dolmar 7900 gets a lot of street cred on this forum, and the various vids I have seen of them they are top notch and decent bargains. For now looks to be the best cut for the buck in that size category.

 

[blsnelling]

With the amount of work you have to do, I STRONGLY recommend a 2-saw plan. 346/261/5101 and 372/460/7900. Pick your poison.

 

[David (saltas)]

Though I might make enemies here, my engineering side highly favors the PowerSharp system from Oregon. Since they don't yet have a .325" option, I had considered limiting my choices to 3/8" chain-based units, but quickly saw the folly of that. That said, I will probably buy limited number of chains in anticipation of Oregon coming out with a .325" PowerSharp.

Jim

first welcome to AS

Jim Power sharp is junk. It is a promise of a quick fix for people with more money than brains and it does not work it does not set the raker's to the right hight it does not sharpen the side of the cutter and it takes the material of the wrong side of the top of the cutter

File-o-Plate is one of the best ways to sharpen a chain with a file and they are cheap just a couple of dollars

If you are not confident then buy a cheaper chain grinder like $50 and take small cuts cheap grinders flex a bit but you can get good results if you keep the chain tight (I was brought up a poor tradesperson blames his tools)

Or you could buy several chains and get the saw shop to sharpen them.

Nothing cuts better than a new chain

Nothing wastes all that horse power like a blunt chain.

Nothing controversial so far.

I have used saws on and of since being a teenager old farm boss cant remember the model as I did not care at the time, 08s, Ms211, Ms220t, 50cc makita etc.
However My first saw I owned was a MS017 It was used once by its first owner and I got it for $80.00. With it I fell and bucked trees 24" many a time.

Sure it was not as fast as a MS660 but it was not a timbersport comp. Just me working at my pace once it was "on the ground the volunteer groundies were kept busy. I was waiting on them not the other way round. So you don't have to have a big saw but a little saw won't last unless it gets lots a luv.

Good technique helps but nothing cuts like a sharp chain
You can cut something up to twice your bar length.

that said

I have bought a new saw MS261 "Brad - C.S.I. (ChainSaw Investigator)" shipped it half way round the world to me.
Thanks Brad.

I respect all of the heartfelt good advise you have been given by everyone so far.

Buy a 50cc saw and see how you go

start on the small stuff, then do some bigger stuff and make up your own mind what suits your budget.

do buy your self some quality PPE chaps gloves helmet visor etc

After PPE the best investment is learning how to sharpen a chain

 

[jus2fat]

I thought our "youngblood" OP...Brain...was going to the dealers
yesterday to get a feel of various one and likely to make a purchase??

Soooo....where are you young Bro???? What is happening???
It really annoys me when folks ask for advice and don't follow-up
with what they decided to do. To me that is disrespect to advisers.

J2F